Holocaust ... and other forms of Denial

[Michael]

It's a sociological category - you just ask somebody in the society. If there's any question, ask ten people. Barack and Michelle Obama will be black, Donald Trump will be white, in US society.

What are you on about? You can ask 10 people to smell coffee and then citrus blind folded and most people will tell you the first is coffee and the second is citrus. These are still SUBJECTIVE experiences. An objective measurement would be something like the chemical makeup.

As for "Black" and "White" being categories, yes, I don't disagree, people have their opinions on them, just like the smell coffee, and in the same manner, they are subjective experiences. Unless you have an objective test - do y ou?

Perhaps you want there to be 'races'? Is this it? If so, why? See, I don't doubt that there are problems in the USA, these problems have strong correlations to so-called 'race'. The real problem isn't 'race'. It's IQ. Low IQ. Which correlates strongly with behavior and ultimately economic prosperity.

According to the DOJ, Black Americans (12% of the population) commit around 50% of the violent crimes. But that's not really what the data says, 6% of that population are men, and men overwhelmingly commit violent crimes, so saying 6% would be more accurate. However, that's not really what the data says, it's really aged 15 - 35, which is about 3%. About 3% of people commit 50% of the crime, according to the State. Now, I know, you're going to say, that's because they are targeted. Um, no. That's not what the data says. The data shows police enter neighborhoods at a rate strongly correlated to number of gun shots recorded and number of 911 calls made.

Now, the DOJ data also (coincidentally) show this same group of people, are the very same people that little old Asian racist grandma's will cross the street when they see a group of with their hoody's up. No, it has nothing to do with the data that show Asians to be targets of violence (which they are). Now, I'm sure you'll say that it's this little old racist Asian woman's fault. She's causing these nice boys to beat the money out of her. See, Asians make the most in the USA, about 70K a year. So, they must be stealing it with all their Yellow Privledge. Just coincidentally, they happen have the highest IQ by 'race' - but, that's just a coincidence, as a minority group, they ironically also need special status and help against all that White privilege that they're out competing. Funny enough, Asians, even though a minority group, commit nearly zero crimes, though they are a prime target for that 3% mentioned, you know, the whole ATM. I wonder why? Why don't you tell me. Why? Why is there practically a war on Asian Americans in the USA? Why? They're a minority group - so, why the hostility against them? Do you think, if you step outside of your race paradigm you may realize it's because for an IQ 85 predator, a little of cash carrying Asian girl is EASY MONEY. Beat the money out of her, along with her phone. This is happening every single day in the USA. What should Asian Americans do? I mean, in terms of YOUR narrative. How do Asians frame the race war against them? Tell me, because you seem to have no problem framing the police behavior (which is legal), so tell me how you're going to frame the race war against Asians in the USA.

This will be good.

Let me repeat: Asians are minorities, Asians make more than Whites, Asians are almost a zero point on the DOJ violent crime stats, Asians are overwhelmingly targeted by Black Americans for violent crimes (comparably). Now, you use your Race Theory and explain the data in terms of Race and Racial Profiling and Race Bias.

I'm genuinely curious to see you wiggle your way around the objective DATA.


You go ahead and maintain you 'race' theory and then twist around in a pretzel blaming "White" privledge or whatever floats your boat. In reality, low IQ people of ANY complexion, are perpetrating most violent crimes with an IQ of 85 being strongly correlated with most violent crimes. A human with an IQ of 85 is the perfect predator in a modern city. Of any eye color by the way.


I personally think your 'race' theory is in fact 'race' baiting while ignoring reality and is making the problem much much worse.

So why do you people?

Because it feels pretty good to virtue signal.

Which is really what this is all about. Ignoring objective reality, ignoring even DENIGRATING the scientific method, because it doesn't fit with your Narrative. See how that works out for every one. There's some experiments being run in Europe right now, as we speak. Yes, let's see how your 'race' theory works out for them.

 

[Michael]

The racist thugs will of course attend the STEM technical schools - just like now, at the big engineering universities - and learn no history or rhetoric or even science outside their presupposed vocational needs. The children of the wealthy will likely attend high end liberal arts universities, and consolidate their hold on money and power. And the people who are to educate your children, draft your laws, write your books and movies, play your music, advertise your products, negotiate with your friends and enemies, etc, will go to one of those other schools - and create the future of of your society, based on the education they receive there.

Good, we're in agreement. Humanities should be defunded by the State and separated from STEM Technical Universities. Then they can offer their insanity in a free-market at market value. My guess is, they'll begin to model reality more accurately soon enough. As their graduates are refused work (which is happening even now) and they have no associated STEM degrees to leach prestige (and legitimacy) off from or Business School to leach money off from.

Most humanities can be put on YouTube for free. How's that "Socialism" sound to you? FREE Fire all those greedy Professors rent-seeking money off STEM and business majors.

It's a win-win.

 

[iceaura]

Humanities should be defunded by the State and separated from STEM Technical Universities.

Why would you want your entire society populated and run by the very ignorant and the irresponsible children of the very rich?

Unless you have an objective test - do y ou?

Already posted: ask people, record their answers as data. Race is a sociological entity, collect sociological information.

The real problem isn't 'race'. It's IQ. Low IQ. Which correlates strongly with behavior and ultimately economic prosperity.

Lead exposure, air pollution exposure, childhood disease, stress and noise, stereotype threat, bad diet, poor sleep scheduling, lack of music and books in the house, and so forth, all affect IQ and are all affected - caused by - racism in the US.

Your IQ problem is partly a racism problem.

Now, I know, you're going to say, that's because they are targeted. Um, no. That's not what the data says. The data shows police enter neighborhoods at a rate strongly correlated to number of gun shots recorded and number of 911 calls made.

They are also targeted - plenty of data shows that. So?

Let me repeat: Asians are minorities, Asians make more than Whites, Asians are almost a zero point on the DOJ violent crime stats, Asians are overwhelmingly targeted by Black Americans for violent crimes (comparably). Now, you use your Race Theory and explain the data in terms of Race and Racial Profiling and Race Bias.

Obviously you can tell who is yellow and who isn't. And obviously you can compile objective data about people you recognize as yellow. So your entire notion of race as a subjective experience that people can choose not to have is clearly nonsense.

 

[Michael]

Lead exposure, air pollution exposure, childhood disease, stress and noise, stereotype threat, bad diet, poor sleep scheduling, lack of music and books in the house, and so forth, all affect IQ and are all affected - caused by - racism in the US.

Oh yes, magical White racism again. Everything's all the fault of those racist Swede's huh? Or all those Asians who are mugged on a daily basis in the USA (as the DOJ data clearly demonstrate). They're the problem too huh?

Give me a break.

Taking away all that Agency must be a lot of work. A Burden really. A White people's Burden huh? Feeling all that guilt. Funny thing, Asians don't feel it. I wonder why? They make 20K more a year than Whites, and (given the massive onslaught against against them) they're as a general rule of thumb, somewhat racist. And if you think America is something, you should work in China. In China they're even more of a racist than you. Not only do they believe in race, they actually think humans are different species. Yes, species. With Asians being on the top of the human 'species' theory. And it must be true huh? Because they believe it is true. A sociological phenomenon. I wonder, do you think it's HELPFUL to continue to teach people that they are different 'species'?

Do you? Keep talking about the 'species' and framing all the problems in the world relative to different 'species' of humans with some being more evolved than others. As if something could be 'more' evolved. LOL

Well? Does this seem reasonable to you? OR, how about something objectively measurable. Like IQ. So that White, Yellow, Red and Black people with 120 IQ are categorized by this, useful, benchmark. It's so useful in fact, we use it to decide who gets a higher education or not. So useful in fact, the AMA justifies rent-seeking because if not an idiot would be killing you instead of one other certified quacks.

Tell me, why is it, do you suppose, poor Asians immigrants, from polluted China, are targeted by Black Americans (according to the DOJ)? What did the Asians do to deserve this?

I'm just curious as to how you're going to blame this on Whites. Should be interesting. I am sure you'll also credit the Whites for Asians making 20K more than them.

Speaking of ungodly air pollution, never ending noise, total lack of sleep, poor food quality, lead polluted water (hell, lead would be the least of it) - ever been in China? Chinese normality curves show Chinese to have one of the highest average IQ's in the world. About 103 to 105 in fact.

 

[iceaura]

Oh yes, magical White racism again

There's nothing magical about the past 250 years of "white" racism in the US. Ask the residents of Flint.
Although you are illustrating the concept of "denial" quite well.

Well? Does this seem reasonable to you? OR, how about something objectively measurable. Like IQ. So that White, Yellow, Red and Black people with 120 IQ are categorized by this, useful, benchmark.

IQ is heavily influenced by sociological factors. Before it's "objective", in your usage (meaning "technical" in some vague way you can't actually define) these factors have to be filtered out.

Speaking of ungodly air pollution, never ending noise, total lack of sleep, poor food quality, lead polluted water (hell, lead would be the least of it) - ever been in China? Chinese normality curves show Chinese to have one of the highest average IQ's in the world. About 103 to 105 in fact.

And yet they can't run a democracy - murderous, authoritarian, near-totalitarian governance is all they can handle, apparently.

And they have the smallest families, partly involving their custom of killing girl babies - I see I left out birth order, sex ratio, and number of children per family, in my list of sociological influences on IQ. And of course you are incapable of providing anything I leave out, for yourself, even when it's right in front of you, for some reason: is your IQ too low to follow this argument? Inquiring minds want to know.

 

[Michael]

There's nothing magical about the past 250 years of "white" racism in the US.

I'd like to hear you explain why Black Americans make up the majority of basketball teams. One would think that with "White" privledge, most people of this "White" invented sport would be 'White'.

While you're at it, do explain the Swedish ghettos. And remember, those people aren't for the most part 'Black' but instead 'Brown'. You know, just to make sure keep your race categories straight.

Let me guess, 250 years of "White" racism in Sweden.

IQ is heavily influenced by sociological factors. Before it's "objective", in your usage (meaning "technical" in some vague way you can't actually define) these factors have to be filtered out.

I'm not saying 'racism' didn't or doesn't exist. I'm saying 'race' doesn't exist, outside of a subjective experience. IQ on the other hand, objectively measures brain function.

You didn't explain why the "Yellow" race makes 20K more a year in "White" privledge America. So? How is that possible?

You also didn't explain why according to the DOJ, Asians are the victims of violent crime perpetrated by Blacks. Other than to say "White Racism". News flash, Asians were also seen as an inferior 'race'. Chinese were routinely murdered in CA by Whites. Yet, they are not attacking Blacks. Finally, I find it telling you'd blame White Racism for Black-on-Black crime. Many very very poor people living in many parts of the world with no where near the crime as the USA. Though, some places come close, and those places are made up of people with (on average) an IQ of 85. If you go lower, those societies are poor, but less violent. See, really low IQ, say of 65, don't have the same level of violence.

Again, correlating strongly with the evidence of IQ, not with pollution, noise or dirty water.

And yet they can't run a democracy - murderous, authoritarian, near-totalitarian governance is all they can handle, apparently.

This does not address the scientific fact that poorly nourished Chinese, who live in polluted, noisy cities with lead (and god knows what else) tainted water have IQ higher than "Whites".

And also, here's a good time to point this out. My argument is in-line with the Scientific data which suggests up to 85% of IQ is heritable. See, what you have to do to explain poor Blacks, is to blame "White" racism - IN SWEDEN, and the US.

There is a correlation. And it's correlated with IQ. People with high IQ, don't like to hang out with low IQ people - of ANY so-called race. In my experience, while anecdotally, I have found high IQ people like other high IQ people, really regardless of where on earth they come from. And they don't like low IQ people. Regardless if said low IQ person lives just up the road.

Further, outside of "White" racism, which didn't work so well against Asians, you're going to have to fall back on culture. But, I bet your White Guilt isn't going to like that is it? It's not going to like the idea of suggesting White culture is better than Black culture, you know, because "IQ" is socioeconomic. Which, if we follow this line of reasoning, suggests Yellow culture to be superior. Is this where you want to take your argument?

And they have the smallest families, partly involving their custom of killing girl babies - I see I left out birth order, sex ratio, and number of children per family, in my list of sociological influences on IQ. And of course you are incapable of providing anything I leave out, for yourself, even when it's right in front of you, for some reason: is your IQ too low to follow this argument? Inquiring minds want to know.

As a Science denier, you should really be able to empathize with Creationists. You know, when you really really really want something to be the way you want it to be, and not the way the scientific method suggest things are.

Genetics and intelligence differences: five special findings.
Mol Psychiatry. 2015 Feb;20(1):98-108. doi: 10.1038/mp.2014.105. Epub 2014 Sep 16.

Intelligence is a core construct in differential psychology and behavioural genetics, and should be so in cognitive neuroscience. It is one of the best predictors of important life outcomes such as education, occupation, mental and physical health and illness, and mortality. Intelligence is one of the most heritable behavioural traits. Here, we highlight five genetic findings that are special to intelligence differences and that have important implications for its genetic architecture and for gene-hunting expeditions. (i) The heritability of intelligence increases from about 20% in infancy to perhaps 80% in later adulthood. (ii) Intelligence captures genetic effects on diverse cognitive and learning abilities, which correlate phenotypically about 0.30 on average but correlate genetically about 0.60 or higher. (iii) Assortative mating is greater for intelligence (spouse correlations ~0.40) than for other behavioural traits such as personality and psychopathology (~0.10) or physical traits such as height and weight (~0.20). Assortative mating pumps additive genetic variance into the population every generation, contributing to the high narrow heritability (additive genetic variance) of intelligence. (iv) Unlike psychiatric disorders, intelligence is normally distributed with a positive end of exceptional performance that is a model for 'positive genetics'. (v) Intelligence is associated with education and social class and broadens the causal perspectives on how these three inter-correlated variables contribute to social mobility, and health, illness and mortality differences. These five findings arose primarily from twin studies. They are being confirmed by the first new quantitative genetic technique in a century-Genome-wide Complex Trait Analysis (GCTA)-which estimates genetic influence using genome-wide genotypes in large samples of unrelated individuals. Comparing GCTA results to the results of twin studies reveals important insights into the genetic architecture of intelligence that are relevant to attempts to narrow the 'missing heritability' gap.​

My guess is, if you lived in Flint, and had a low IQ, you'd be a racist. You'd be a racist because you'd employ a faulty form of heuristic reasoning - that would probably save your life. I know, I've lived in Flint. Twice. Ideas about 'race' are not separate from 'culture', which is not separate from IQ.

Maybe you just don't like 'scientific' reasoning? Maybe it feels cold. That's what some people tell me when I tell them I am a strong atheist. They say: How sad to think like that. As if 'thinking' there's a magical afterlife is going to magically change reality. I'd say the same about your ideas of race. Skin, hair or eye color isn't important. What is important is objectively measurable attributes, such as DNA and IQ. Once these are taken into account, then we see it is through no virtue of their own that E. Asians have a higher IQ, or even that Japan has a very sophisticated culture able to invent and maintain high tech that IMO places them and a few other high IQ countries into the category of First World Nation (America coming in as a Second World Nation, 2A if you will).

It's simply genetics.

Not virtue.

Genetics.

Chemicals: carbon, oxygen, nitrogen, sulfur, sodium, potassium.

With this is mind, we can set about actually addressing the real problems in the world. Which are best solved with a free-society, using sound money and common law. I'd add to this, peaceful parenting so that the humans that do develop, regardless of IQ, have the best chance at being virtuous themselves. As individuals. Then we study societies like Sweden, which is really doing a great job making an example of itself. Not only the 'White' racism theory, but also the data that can be gleened on Pathological Empathy which, via Progressive Socialism, can destroy society. Perhaps their's is a mini example of how Empires rise, and as we are in the West, fall.

 

[Syne]

Regardless of IQ, the largest predictors to avoid of a lifetime in poverty are being married before having children, getting a job, and graduating high school.

Our research shows that of American adults who followed these three simple rules, only about 2 percent are in poverty and nearly 75 percent have joined the middle class (defined as earning around $55,000 or more per year). There are surely influences other than these principles at play, but following them guides a young adult away from poverty and toward the middle class.
- https://www.brookings.edu/opinions/...teens-should-follow-to-join-the-middle-class/​

Black communities have been especially targeted by Planned Parenthood and welfare, that especially disincentivize paternal responsibility, work, and marriage. Not sure, off hand, the impetus for the culture that eschews intelligence (and often equates being smart with "acting white").

 

[iceaura]

Our research shows that of American adults who followed these three simple rules, only about 2 percent are in poverty and nearly 75 percent have joined the middle class (defined as earning around $55,000 or more per year). There are surely influences other than these principles at play, but following them guides a young adult away from poverty and toward the middle class.

Since white racism has so obviously and significantly interfered with black people's attending a decent grade school and high school, getting a job, and getting paid well enough at that job to marry and support children,

you seem to be recommending one or both of these: that somebody "guide" black people away from being affected by white racism, or that somebody "guide" white racism away from having any effect on black people.

How do you imagine such guidance to be arranged?

 

[iceaura]

Black communities have been especially targeted by Planned Parenthood and welfare, that especially disincentivize paternal responsibility, work, and marriage.

So Planned Parenthood and welfare have interfered with black boys and men attending decent schools, getting jobs, and being paid well enough at those jobs to marry and support a family.

And this contention appears in a thread on denial of such matters as the reality of the Holocaust being focused on Jews.

 

[iceaura]

I'm not saying 'racism' didn't or doesn't exist. I'm saying 'race' doesn't exist, outside of a subjective experience. IQ on the other hand, objectively measures brain function.

Apparently you have no idea what a "subjective experience" is. At one point I believe you were even using the color blue as an example (although I'm not sure you would go so far as to say the color blue did not exist - even among people and cultures without separate words for blue and green.)

Hint: "intersubjectively verifiable" is one of the terms used to distinguish things that "exist", scientifically and objectively, from those that don't. US sociological race, in the US, is intersubjectively verifiable. Michelle Obama cannot choose to be white, in the US, or have the "subjective experience" of being white.

While you're at it, do explain the Swedish ghettos. And remember, those people aren't for the most part 'Black' but instead 'Brown'. You know, just to make sure keep your race categories straight.

Let me guess, 250 years of "White" racism in Sweden.

Instead of guessing so badly, and getting it wrong as always, read my earlier post where I pointed out a few of the more obvious key and fundamental differences between recent Swedish immigration and historical American plantation slavery.

Among others, as noted: Swedish ghettos are formed of immigrants from a quite different culture, American ghettos of people from the same culture as the rest of the country; Swedish ghettos are of voluntary immigrants, American ghettos of involuntary residents; Swedish ghettos were (are) a step down. American ghettos were a step up. And so forth.

 

[wellwisher]

So Planned Parenthood and welfare have interfered with black boys and men attending decent schools, getting jobs, and being paid well enough at those jobs to marry and support a family.

And this contention appears in a thread on denial of such matters as the reality of the Holocaust being focused on Jews.

There is a recipe for success and for failure in America. If you look at the more recent \ black immigrants, they do every well and get alone, since they have yet to been brain washed by the left. They have more traditional right leaning values of family, education and entrepreneurship. It is not about color, but rathe the difference is the leftist indoctrination hurts the America born blacks. The left has this chip on its shoulder, which is used to manipulate the system for freebies, which are never enough, to change the status quo. The Democratic party was the original party of slavery and segregation and their teachings perpetuate this. If the left wanted or perpetuate two cultures they could not do better.

Black immigrants from Africa are driving the recent growth in immigration, accounting for 36% of the total foreign-born black population. Blacks from Nigeria and Ethiopia account for much of that growth. Still, the Caribbean population accounts for nearly 50% of all blacks, with most coming from Jamaica.

As the ‘different flavors of black’ emerge, different economies are also emerging. The Nielsen research finds that the median household income for foreign-born blacks is 30% higher than U.S.-born blacks.

“A lot of the African . . . immigrants are coming specifically to get an education in the States,” says Andrew McCaskill, senior vice president of global communications at Nielsen.

“High numbers are college-educated, and not only have college degrees, but also masters,” he adds.

McCaskill also says that the black immigrant population in the U.S. has a higher percentage of entrepreneurs, and an increased ability to keep dollars in their own communities.

“They’re creating jobs in their communities, they’re buying products from their entrepreneurs. There typically is a culture of recycling dollars, which contributes greatly to the rising fortunes,” says McCaskill.

The quote is from a black enterprise web site. The leftist fake news strikes again. The left is about dependency at the ballot box, which requires the promised land alway out of reach due to some right leaning conspiracy, which does not jive with the facts.

http://www.blackenterprise.com/money/black-immigrants-in-u-s-earning-30-more-than-u-s-born-blacks/

 

[iceaura]

This does not address the scientific fact that poorly nourished Chinese, who live in polluted, noisy cities with lead (and god knows what else) tainted water have IQ higher than "Whites".

Are you trying to argue that lead exposure in childhood does not affect IQ scores in adulthood? That air pollution does not affect IQ? That noise and stress and disease and poor diet in both the child and the mother do not affect IQ scores?
Because if you aren't, you aren't addressing my argument. And if you are, you need to do a bit of information gathering.

And also, here's a good time to point this out. My argument is in-line with the Scientific data which suggests up to 85% of IQ is heritable. See, what you have to do to explain poor Blacks, is to blame "White" racism - IN SWEDEN, and the US.

No, your argument reveals a basic confusion about "heritability" and the measures of it. You are badly confused about genetics and inheritance. I have tried - with examples, such as height, which is right in front of you in Japan where you claim to have lived - to point out your error, but you refuse to see it.

So that all of this:

You also didn't explain why according to the DOJ, Asians are the victims of violent crime perpetrated by Blacks. Other than to say "White Racism". News flash, Asians were also seen as an inferior 'race'. Chinese were routinely murdered in CA by Whites. Yet, they are not attacking Blacks. Finally, I find it telling you'd blame White Racism for Black-on-Black crime. Many very very poor people living in many parts of the world with no where near the crime as the USA. Though, some places come close, and those places are made up of people with (on average) an IQ of 85. If you go lower, those societies are poor, but less violent. See, really low IQ, say of 65, don't have the same level of violence.

is bullshit, without the slightest relevance to this discussion.

Some of it is actually false (nonviolence in very low IQ areas), some of it is meaningless in this context (black on yellow crime), some of it is true and would be relevant except that you don't know why or how (I blame the effects of white racism for a good share of black on black crime). The compendium is simply a load of crap you have disgorged unto this forum without the ghost of an attempt to construct an argument out of it.

 

[iceaura]

There is a recipe for success and for failure in America. If you look at the more recent \ black immigrants, they do every well and get alone, since they have yet to been brain washed by the left. They have more traditional right leaning values of family, education and entrepreneurship. It is not about color, but it is about leftist indoctrination that hurts the America born blacks.

You really should take that up with Michael - he's the guy arguing that the effects of white racism are not a significant or primary factor in US black failure.

Meanwhile, don't forget this:

African immigrants to the US are among the most educated groups in the United States. Some 48.9 percent of all African immigrants hold a college diploma. This is more than double the rate of native-born white Americans, and nearly four times the rate of native-born African Americans

Side point: What would you bet, for or against, the claim that American born blacks who emigrate to other countries do better there, economically, than the long term resident black population?

 

[Michael]

Since white racism has so obviously and significantly interfered with black people's attending a decent grade school and high school, getting a job, and getting paid well enough at that job to marry and support children,

One more time, I didn't say 'racism' doesn't exist, I said 'race' doesn't exist. As for 'Blacks', according to the 1910 census, Blacks in a Chicago borough had a literacy rate of 85%, the same borough in 2010 (following a century of Progressive Socialism and GiverMint Schooling) how has a literacy rate below 50%.

Are you going to argue 'White racism' is higher now than then?

In the 1930s, Whites had a higher unemployment rate compared to Blacks, Blacks had a lower divorce rate too. Thanks to Progressive Socialism / White Racism, democrats where able to push through minimum wage laws that disenfranchise the people among the Black community who were hard working, putting them out of work. This was done on purpose in S. Africa AND in the north of the USA. On PURPOSE. Furthermore, Progressive socialists then set about destroying the Black community by imploding the price-mechanism. No longer would Blacks be able to price anything accurately (The Germans tried to do the same thing to the English pound during WWII). Progressive Socialism and the White Racist Virtue Signalling twats are who enable this horrid system and is the reason why Blacks are poor.

Oh, and get this, destroying the price mechanism also destroyed the Chinese society (twice). It's not an IQ thing. It's an information thing. Progressive Welfare has upended the price mechanism for poor Blacks (and poor Whites) and has destroyed their society. Welfare Ghettos should be called what they are: Extreme Socialism: Communism. And like all other Hyper-Socialist ghettos / Communist States, the Progressive Welfare Ghettos of the USA are shit-holes of despair, drugs and violence.

Most jobs in the world do not require a high IQ. Particularly when you're sitting on an assembly line.

Thanks to Progressive Socialism in the form of regulatory laws (moved jobs to China - which was WORSE for the environment, not that they give two shits); minimum wage laws (disenfranchised Blacks); licencing scams screw over those with lower IQ (but still adequate IQ, it doesn't take an IQ of 130 to practice medicine, but a person with 115 will be out-competed in the scam that Socialism has given us); and etc...

Yes, I can see why you love the whole concept of racism so much. You're a progressive socialism. Of course you do.


Lastly, IQ is an objective measure of brain function, it is a 'scientific' measure of brain function and correlates very strongly with economic success. Flint has just about as many poor Whites (of which there are many many more in the USA) as it has poor Blacks. Many of whom are the sourced from the low IQ people who grew up in the surrounding countryside and towns. People in Flint aren't low IQ because they are poor. They are poor because they have low IQ.

 

[Michael]

Swedish ghettos are formed of immigrants from a quite different culture, American ghettos of people from the same culture as the rest of the country; Swedish ghettos are of voluntary immigrants, American ghettos of involuntary residents; Swedish ghettos were (are) a step down. American ghettos were a step up. And so forth.

You do understand there are more 'White' privileged Americans living in ghettos on Welfare in the USA, compared to Black Americans?

Why do Swedish exist at all? I'm still waiting for you to do you thing, you know, where you blame White Racism. So, go on. Just do it. Like the commercial says

 

[Michael]

Are you trying to argue that lead exposure in childhood does not affect IQ scores in adulthood? That air pollution does not affect IQ? That noise and stress and disease and poor diet in both the child and the mother do not affect IQ scores?

Nice straw man. Again, according to science, IQ is between 50 - 85% genetic. With E. Asians, even those growing up in a noisy, polluted, lead tainted Chinese slum. IQ of 103 - 105.

Sure, maybe in 20 years that average IQ relative to that number will be 110 - 115? Actually, in HK and Japan it is probably around 110. As for China? We'll see. My guess is, yes.

And, you know what? When I see an Asian child reading (hiragana) at age 3 and then teaching themselves to read katakana at age 4, and then moving on to English around 5. You think this is just 'culture'. And if so, that genetic aptitude doesn't play a HUGE role in the development of that culture? You think low IQ people have the same level of patience? That they value the same things, that you value? I've been around a LOT of low IQ whites (in Flint for example) - what? You think their pigsty of a home (literally, white-trash) is because of.... White Privilege or White Racism or they're just poor, just because. Through no fault of their own... and certainly nothing to do with Progressive Socialism and hyper-regulated society that prevents the higher IQ motivated people from opening a business and hiring them / organizing their time for them.

AND none of this at all has any effect on culture and society (whatever that is)?

Come on!

Let me guess, Whites are blame for Asian success too? Is that it? I mean, we did colonize Hong Kong (well, by we I mean the English). Oh, and Singapore too. And we nuked Japan (twice). Thanks to us Korea is still at war. Then there's the drug-trade in China, communism (a Western idiocracy) and their social collapse. So, it's all thanks to Whites that Asians have the 'culture' needed to achieve high IQ.

Right?

That's the way forward for nations to have the right 'culture'. They need us to invade and occupy. Is that your argument

OR.... OR.... OR.... is it just that the 80,000 years of harsh winters selected for foresight (so you didn't starve) and some mental aptitudes (spatial orientation in blindingly massive snow fields)?

Maybe... just maybe, it's dumb-luck. No virtue involved at all.

Some of it is actually false (nonviolence in very low IQ areas), some of it is meaningless in this context (black on yellow crime), some of it is true and would be relevant except that you don't know why or how (I blame the effects of white racism for a good share of black on black crime). The compendium is simply a load of crap you have disgorged unto this forum without the ghost of an attempt to construct an argument out of it.

Yeah yeah, "White People".

The IQ Gap Is No Longer a Black and White Issue
“If only environmental factors were responsible for the different IQs of different populations, we should expect to find some countries where Africans had higher IQs than Europeans. The failure to find a single country where this is the case points to the presence of a strong genetic factor.” Richard Lynn.

“Regression would explain why Black children born to high IQ, wealthy Black parents have test scores 2 to 4 points lower than do White children born to low IQ, poor White parents.” Arthur Jensen.

I'm curious iceaura, what are you going to do when YOUR cherished beliefs run head-on into a wall of Science? "God is Dead", and so is cultural relativism. So is your lovely "... because White". What will do you when all those years of virtue signalling start to taste like crow?

The Scientific Method is our best objective means of modeling reality. Not what you're doing. What you're doing is causing MORE problems. Running around blaming White's because your God is Dead. Sorry, that's not helping. It's making the problems, which are real - much worse. And we all recall how this ended last time God Died? Two World Wars later...

How about this? This time, we go with the numbers instead of the emotion?

Do you think a person with an IQ of your average teenager, say 14 or 15, should be allowed to legally vote? I mean, we don't allow 14 year olds to vote, why would we allow an adult with the mental aptitude of a 14 year old vote? Seems 'reasonable' that if it's not appropriate for a 14 year old to vote, the reason it's not appropriate is because of their mental age. The same 'reasoning' holds for an adult. Likewise, we can do away with 'age' (a crude measurement of mental aptitude) and simply measure mental aptitude. If you're 14 and have the mental aptitude of a 1 year old, maybe you can vote?

Further:
1) You've yet to explain why Asian Americans make 20,000 MORE than their privileged White neighbors. Why?
2) Given Asians are a minority, many having grown up side-by-side other minorities in polluted American cities, yet they the lowest crime rate? Why?
3) Asian Americans have an IQ higher than the Whites who rule over them. Why?

Lastly, IQ is just a single measurement. Two people of the same IQ can have very different personal traits (obviously). And get this, these are mostly genetic as well. Not only that, but the production of hormones - genetic. Society isn't magically independent of biology. A society with an average IQ of 65 is not going to produce the same sort of 'culture' as a society with an average IQ of 110.

You may not like this, and I'm sure it makes you feel wonderful to virtue signal, but the fact is IQ measurements, fMRI scans, genetic profiles, hormone production, and etc.. is an objective scientific manner in which to determine why some people are poor and others are not. And again, Asians are becoming wealthy - through NO VIRTUE OF THEIR OWN. IT IS JUST EVOLUTIONARY LUCK. There's no reason to feel 'pride' or 'superior' for dumb-luck.

IMO

Further, people with high IQ generally befriend others with similar IQ. From a Racists' point of view, this may appear like Asians or Jews just want to hang-out with one another's 'race', when in reality, they are simply forming friendships with like-minded people.

 

[iceaura]

One more time, I didn't say 'racism' doesn't exist, I said 'race' doesn't exist

You also said it was a subjective experience that a person could choose for themselves - for example, that Michelle Obama could choose to have the subjective experience of being white in the US.

As for 'Blacks', according to the 1910 census, Blacks in a Chicago borough had a literacy rate of 85%, the same borough in 2010 (following a century of Progressive Socialism and GiverMint Schooling) how has a literacy rate below 50%

Do you have an argument here? Some kind of point you are trying to make?

In the 1930s, Whites had a higher unemployment rate compared to Blacks, Blacks had a lower divorce rate too.

Where do you get these fantasy versions of history, and why don't you ever fact check them?

And, you know what? When I see an Asian child reading (hiragana) at age 3 and then teaching themselves to read katakana at age 4, and then moving on to English around 5. You think this is just 'culture'.

“If only environmental factors were responsible for the different IQs of different populations, we should expect to find some countries where Africans had higher IQs than Europeans. The failure to find a single country where this is the case points to the presence of a strong genetic factor.” Richard Lynn.

“Regression would explain why Black children born to high IQ, wealthy Black parents have test scores 2 to 4 points lower than do White children born to low IQ, poor White parents.” Arthur Jensen.

Irrelevant (and not exactly the brightest bulbs on the tree, btw).
If you are trying to argue that all those factors I listed do not affect IQ scores, let's see the argument. If you are trying to argue that racism in the US - in particular white racism against black people - does not dramatically affect the average exposure of black people to these IQ lowering factors, let's see the argument. Otherwise, quit wasting bandwidth on ever longer and ever less coherent attempts to obscure you basic confusions about genetic inheritance.

Do you think a person with an IQ of your average teenager, say 14 or 15, should be allowed to legally vote? I mean, we don't allow 14 year olds to vote, why would we allow an adult with the mental aptitude of a 14 year old vote?

IQ does not measure mental age.

I have been suggesting for a while that you ponder the genetics of human height, and learn the basics of things like heritability. The correlation of height with age is yet another opportunity for you to learn something here.

A society with an average IQ of 65 is not going to produce the same sort of 'culture' as a society with an average IQ of 110.

Yeah - we've noticed. The 110 country is going to be a regimented authoritarian land prison run by mass murderers with a blasted landscape controlled by a military industrial complex and a mysterious shortage of girl babies, and the other one is going to be a nice place full of friendly people and forests with birds living in them. On average.

You may not like this, and I'm sure it makes you feel wonderful to virtue signal, but the fact is IQ measurements, fMRI scans, genetic profiles, hormone production, and etc.. is an objective scientific manner in which to determine why some people are poor and others are not.

Or why some people are tall and others are not.
It doesn't work for comparing populations, "races", and things like that. Find out why, at your local community college.

 

[Michael]

Irrelevant

Actually, not irrelevant. Here, let's go back to the Science you're denying.

Scientific evidence (of the good variety) exists demonstrating the following:
1. IQ is between 50 - 85% genetic.
2. IQ in polluted, noisy, nobody-drinks-the-water (I don't even brush my teeth in tap water when there) China is 103-105.
3. IQ of around 85% is strongly correlated with violence in the USA.
4. IQ is very strongly correlated with economic performance.
5. Yes, exposure to pollution can stunt mental development (such as consuming large amounts of lead)

My opinion:
6. IQ correlates with religious belief. Thus, where people generally have a very low IQ, you get simple beliefs about simple twigs and trees, a little higher (say: 85 ish again) then the rulers ensure the "belief" is peppered with promises of lots of virgin sex in and an overly aggressive male god always watching, so just jack-it and wait for an afterlife of sex A higher IQ, well, now we move into meditation and high culture.

What you have yet to provide evidence for:
1. African Americans have an average IQ of 85 because White people are poisoning them with lead. Prove it.
2. Most White Americans are racist against most African American - of high IQ. Prove it.

See, in fact, most Americans with high IQ, like other's with a similarly high IQ, regardless of your hang-up on race. In fact, most White high IQ Americans would much rather befriend a high IQ African American / Black American of similar culture and mindset, than to befriend a low IQ White American who lives in a white-trash trailer park.

I'm still waiting on your reasoning as to why Yellow Americans make 20K more a year than White Americans.... you know, 'Because White People'. So, feel free to elaborate.


According to the DOJ, 3% of Americans commit 50% of the violent crimes. Your reasoning "Because White", is in fact making the problem worse. Like the White mentally retarded kid who was kidnapped and had pieces of his skin cut off. Want to know how they justified doing this? It went like this: "Because White". Not much different than "Because Black" or "Because Jew". As a matter of fact, it's the same. Whereas, the SCIENCE (that you're attempting to deny) actually allows us to look past 'Because White' or 'Because Black' or 'Because Jew' and clearly see it's in fact: Because IQ.

How did we end up with so many low IQ people living in violent GiverMint Ghettos? Well, that is in part due to 1930's racism. See, Progressive Socialist Authoritarians used the minimum wage, regulatory-capture, rent-seeking and GiverMint Welfare to destroy Black communities. It doesn't take an IQ of 130 to practice medicine - as an example. But, a Black American at the upper end of the normality curve, with an IQ of 125, will be out-competed by Whites and Asians, of whom there WILL BE (according to the data) more with IQ's that are high. Thus, this kid with an IQ of 115, 110, 125 - all out competed. Progressive SOCIALISM did this. Your policies are doing this.

IMO "Because White" virtue signalling is disgusting. Worse than racism.

And that's what Progressive Socialists / Statist Authoritarians continue to do, to this day. I broke record that bleets like a stuck sheep. Because White, Because White, Because, blah blah blah. Why do Yellow people make 20K more a year? Because White. Why is North Korea poor? Because White. Why is the Earth round? Because White.

History suggests, a combination of Magic Thinking (in your case, Statism) combined with Science Denial, ends in vast mounts of dead humans. Something to think about.


... Anyway, IQ and mental age are strongly correlated. A 8 year old will have a higher IQ when 13 and higher again when 25. Should a person with a mental age of 14 be allowed to vote?

 

[Oystein]

I wish I believed in Hell, because there's bound to be a special room down there for Holocaust Deniers.

 

[Michael]

Or why some people are tall and others are not.
It doesn't work for comparing populations, "races", and things like that. Find out why, at your local community college.

Find out why you in fact can compare the heights of different populations of people. For example, the average height of a male in clean, well-fed, healthy, longest lived people in the world, Japan, is about 5'7"; whereas in the Netherlands, it's about 6'0".

Get this, eye shapes and iris coloration are slightly different too!? Possibly due to environmental selection pressures. Geee, who'd have thunk it. Regardless of how, the fact is, these different populations of humans - are genetically different. My GAWD - you don't say? Really? And those genetic differences lead to differences that can be measured both physically, and mentally. Shocking isn't it!

People are in fact different and have different potentials due to genetics? Really?

LOL

The whole Blank Slate bullsh*t, is just that - bullsh*t.

A lay article for easy reading
Lai, Chao-Qiang (11 December 2006). "How much of human height is genetic and how much is due to nutrition?". Scientific American