Hollywood Star Castigated For Attacking Muslims

[Greco]

my religion? you know nothing of me.

is to convert every one to islam
there can be no compulsion with regardds to faith (quran)
the objective my friend is to teach, and spread the word through education. Not to force.


Any one who doesnt believe in Allah is an infidel, a virtual sub-human.
absolutely not true. You draw conclusions based on fallacious and biased viewpoints. Your perception on subject X doesnt equate to reality about X.

Any religion that castigates others of different beliefs is a very dangerous religion
you are sadly very very misinformed.

“ Fight the unbelievers who gird you about, and let them find firmness in you. (Q.9:123),

“Take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people” (Q.5:51),

“Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. (Q.9:5).

“Truly the Pagans are unclean” (Q.9:28,.

“Take not for protectors your fathers and your brothers if they love infidelity above Faith: if any of you do so, they do wrong.” (Q.9:23),

“And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah.” (Q.2:193).

“When ye meet the Unbelievers (in fight), smite at their necks; At length, when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly (on them): thereafter (is the time for) either generosity or ransom: Until the war lays down its burdens.” (Q.47:4).

“I will instill terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them." (Q.8:12).


Pardon me Wraith is this part of the Quran?

 

[otheadp]

fallacy #1: you eqaute saudi govt with Islam
look... you're just being like an avg. fundie here.
"they're infidels. that's not the REAL Islam. allah will punish them. no, let ME punish them"
whatever your view is, it's an interpretatin.
so is theirs.
but, you're a non-Muslim
and they're the keepers of the 2 holy mosques and the religious authority... so..
yes, it's a fallacy, but I assume that they know about Islam more than you.

and another thing,
whether their Islam is the real one, whatever Islam they practice is the Islam we see. it is the heart of ummah.


women voting:
they cant vote in saud, no. But they do in:

-pakistan
-india
-syria
-lebanon
-egypt


pakistan: good
india: not islamic country
syria: mostly secular. funny tho that their rulers have been the same for decades...... now Assad jr. has succeeded his father, even though he was 7 years younger than the required age (he was 33 when he assumed power). the constitution has been changed just for him.. so women voting or no, it doesn't make much difference.
lebanon: mostly secular, 30% Christian. with Syria as the main power in control it doesn't even matter. the Lebanese gov't has absolutely no authority on anything.
egypt: women voting there is imo a cosmetic little thing for western eyes. 1st of all, it's same as with Syria... Mubarrak has been in power for 2 daceds and is "grooming" 2 possible successors. voting is meaningless. otherwise, through Islamic law they put gays in jail, and prosecute Christians for "insulting the prophet". there's a whole Christian movement under siege in Egypt.

you forgot to mention Indonesia, Turkey an Malaysia (if i'm not mistaken)
but these countries have Islam outside of the constitution.

 

[Flores]

I agree with Wraith....Culture have nothing to do with Islam. Muslims come from a variety of different cultural backgrounds.

Some of us like Baklava, others prefer rice puddings. We eat everything from lamb biryanis (yum!!!) to (steak and potatoes). We all speak different languages, we all watch different movies, listen to different music, have different taste in art, have diametrically opposite horizons on architectural designs. The only thing uniting all muslim is their belief in the ONE creator and that prophet muhammed was the seal messanger of god.

 

[outlandish]

greco you have no intention of further understanding, or a development in your understanding.

wow! you think you're the first baffoon to pluck a couple of suras from the quran and take them wholely out of context to furhter bolster their prejudices?

go ahead mate pluck more out.

 

[Flores]

“ Fight the unbelievers who gird you about, and let them find firmness in you. (Q.9:123),

“Take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people” (Q.5:51),

“Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. (Q.9:5).

“Truly the Pagans are unclean” (Q.9:28,.

“Take not for protectors your fathers and your brothers if they love infidelity above Faith: if any of you do so, they do wrong.” (Q.9:23),

“And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah.” (Q.2:193).

“When ye meet the Unbelievers (in fight), smite at their necks; At length, when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly (on them): thereafter (is the time for) either generosity or ransom: Until the war lays down its burdens.” (Q.47:4).

“I will instill terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them." (Q.8:12).


Pardon me Wraith is this part of the Quran?

You are taking things out of context. The fighting command was given to the prophet DURING A WAR, that the prophet was transgressed on.

Do you always do that...meaning take things out of context. Do you prerhaps pick up a personal recorded dialogue during vitnam war, when the commander in chief was saying, kill the opposition, blow them up, if they fake that they are retreating, don't believe them...Do you take this personal conversation to mean that every person should be walking down the street as killing machine?

You sure do take things the wrong way,

Thank to god, billions of muslims are not as dumb as you, or there will be over billion murders in the world as we speak.

 

[Esoteric]

eso:



fallacy #1: you eqaute saudi govt with Islam

1)women voting:
they cant vote in saud, no. But they do in:

-pakistan
-india
-syria
-lebanon
-egypt
etc etc....funny that? see the problem with your line of argument?

2)chaparone:
see 1)

any more questions eso, I'll be more than happy.

You missed the point entirely, If the same were to happen in a Euro country, the whole continent would be in an uproar. In Latin America, whoever tried this would be crucified. Muslims appear as if they do not really care because they are not doing anything about it, at least show displease damn it!.
this is why Euros and Muslism dont see eye to eye. When have the muslim peoples in or outside of muslim countries expressed displease or anger with what is practiced in Saudi Arabia, Nigeria or elsewhere?, Did Pakistanis and Syrians condenm the stonings in Nigeria?. i guess we should just let the Euros and Americans worry about Muslim plight.

 

[outlandish]

oth:

fallacy #1: you eqaute saudi govt with Islam
look... you're just being like an avg. fundie here.
"they're infidels. that's not the REAL Islam. allah will punish them. no, let ME punish them"
whatever your view is, it's an interpretatin.
so is theirs.
but, you're a non-Muslim
and they're the keepers of the 2 holy mosques and the religious authority... so..
yes, it's a fallacy, but I assume that they know about Islam more than you.

and another thing,
whether their Islam is the real one, whatever Islam they practice is the Islam we see. it is the heart of ummah.

what in god's name are you on about man!!!

you take this perfectly logical and truthful satement:

fallacy #1: you eqaute saudi govt with Islam
...and come back with this tripe??:

look... you're just being like an avg. fundie here
???????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"they're infidels. that's not the REAL Islam. allah will punish them. no, let ME punish them"
are you drunk??

and they're the keepers of the 2 holy mosques and the religious authority... so..
totaly irrelevant. they're keepers of jack shit.

I was adressing the specific issues of:

1) women not voting in saud.
2) women needing chaparones in saud.

and equating those 2 points within the context of isalmic principle which they are not

I made my argument perfectly clear.

 

[Greco]

my religion? you know nothing of me.

is to convert every one to islam
there can be no compulsion with regardds to faith (quran)
the objective my friend is to teach, and spread the word through education. Not to force.


Any one who doesnt believe in Allah is an infidel, a virtual sub-human.
absolutely not true. You draw conclusions based on fallacious and biased viewpoints. Your perception on subject X doesnt equate to reality about X.

Any religion that castigates others of different beliefs is a very dangerous religion
you are sadly very very misinformed.

“ Fight the unbelievers who gird you about, and let them find firmness in you. (Q.9:123),

“Take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people” (Q.5:51),

“Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. (Q.9:5).

“Truly the Pagans are unclean” (Q.9:28,.

“Take not for protectors your fathers and your brothers if they love infidelity above Faith: if any of you do so, they do wrong.” (Q.9:23),

“And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah.” (Q.2:193).

“When ye meet the Unbelievers (in fight), smite at their necks; At length, when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly (on them): thereafter (is the time for) either generosity or ransom: Until the war lays down its burdens.” (Q.47:4).

“I will instill terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them." (Q.8:12).


What am I missing?

 

[outlandish]

total historical context within the circumstances inwhich the suras were revealed.


“ Fight the unbelievers who gird you about, and let them find firmness in you. (Q.9:123),
at a time where muslims were being murdered for being muslims, what you expect then to bend over and take it in the ass? Dubbya can fucking spend billions fighting a bullshit war, but 1400 years ago muslims couldnt fight for their freedom.


the rest we need to hear from a scholar who has studied the quran, but those suras were revealed I'm pretty sure during a time where muslims were subjected to extreme persecution, but we dont want to hear about that do we?

 

[Flores]

“ Fight the unbelievers who gird you about, and let them find firmness in you. (Q.9:123),

Fighting is not necessarily a physical one? Firmness is not necessarily related to how well one hanles the sword.

“Take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people” (Q.5:51),

When the prophet was fighting Quraish, many jews and christians were betraying the muslims and telling Quraish where they live and stuff. God told the prophet during that time to be aware of christians and jews and not to take them for protection because they are likely to betray those people....This rule was changed after the war finished, and many other verses in the Quran speaks of freindship with jews and christians. Prophet muhammed married a jew and a christian.

“Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. (Q.9:5).

War commands. As the muslim were being butchered left and right, they were asked not to retaliate until the sacred months have passes, after these months have passed, they were again free to fight back and defend themselves.

“Truly the Pagans are unclean” (Q.9:28,.

Define Pagan first and you yourself will realize how unclean of a concept that is. A pagan is someone that covers the truth.

“Take not for protectors your fathers and your brothers if they love infidelity above Faith: if any of you do so, they do wrong.” (Q.9:23),

The prophet is not asked to hate those people, just not to take these people as protectors, nothing wrong with that. Again infedelity is cheating and lying....I don't expect you to find protection and friendship in criminals.

“And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah.” (Q.2:193).

What is wrong with that. Do you expect us to be persecuted and sit back and watch it happen. We are asked to fight until persecution is no more. Again fighting is not always by the sword. A truthfull word is fighting.

“When ye meet the Unbelievers (in fight), smite at their necks; At length, when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly (on them): thereafter (is the time for) either generosity or ransom: Until the war lays down its burdens.” (Q.47:4).

War commands....Specifically stated for war MEETS. How would you expect US army to deal with opposition, should they serve them tea and read them their rights? Come on now, don't be stupid.

What am I missing?

Everything.

 

[Proud_Muslim]

Fighting is not necessarily a physical one? Firmness is not necessarily related to how well one hanles the sword.

well said sister flores.

http://www.islamdenouncesterrorism.com

 

[otheadp]

and equating those 2 points within the context of isalmic principle which they are not
whether Islam advocates this or not is irrelevant to the discussion.
the point is that these immigrants come to Europe with these values, and many others that are in contradiction to the western ones. and moreover, they look DOWN on these western values as "corrupt" and "inferior"

look... you're just being like an avg. fundie here
...
???????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
you know how fundies always accuse each other and others of "not following Islam"? and why? because their interpretation doesn't agree with the others' interpretation.
or for other reasons such as fascistic ones. i.e. "you (the people) will do what I (the ruler) want you to!...or else you're going against Allah"

the thing is there is no one between man and god so it all comes down to interpretation.
so you saying "Saud is not Islam" is funny to me.

 

[Proud_Muslim]

all he said was "demographic catastrophe"
nothing racist about it.
the MP that distanced himself from the actor said "this man ... is out of touch with realities of the nature of present day European society" is either unaware of immigration (legal and illegal) patterns and birthrates, or he is dancing the political dance with politically correct words.

Greco: u're absolutely right. what's wrong with wanting to preserve your culture? nowadays they call it nazism or fascism....

I am not surprised to hear such comments from NAZI JEWS.

 

[Proud_Muslim]

When Muslims themselves start condenming suicide bombers, stonings, dowries deaths, women rights in Saudi Arabia and elsewhere, dictatorships, terrorist etc., then maybe the Euros would respect you more.

And who give a SHIT about you or the Euros ??

We are sick and tired from this SICK GENERALIZATION...WHEN YOU GUYS START CONDEMING YOUR BLOOD SUCKING NATIONS, THEN AND ONLY THEN, YOU CAN BE CALLED HUMANS.

 

[Proud_Muslim]

why?
Why should muslims be forced to justify a tirade of media bias and ignorant opinions about their faith? Why should they be forced to justify their faith and beliefs because such fallacious nonsense is reported about their faith by those who know nothing?

WELL SAID....I dont hear those PATHETICS asking every single JEW in the world to stand up and condemn the HORRIBLE ATROCITIES the nazi terrorist state of israel is committing against the palestineans !

I dont hear those pathetics asking every single CHRISTIAN in the world to stand up and condemn the PEADOPHILIA in the church !

Hypocrisy at work again.

 

[Proud_Muslim]

You missed the point entirely, If the same were to happen in a Euro country, the whole continent would be in an uproar. In Latin America, whoever tried this would be crucified. Muslims appear as if they do not really care because they are not doing anything about it, at least show displease damn it!.
this is why Euros and Muslism dont see eye to eye. When have the muslim peoples in or outside of muslim countries expressed displease or anger with what is practiced in Saudi Arabia, Nigeria or elsewhere?, Did Pakistanis and Syrians condenm the stonings in Nigeria?. i guess we should just let the Euros and Americans worry about Muslim plight.

The one who hears the above BS would think that the muslim world is EVIL place filled with terrorists and criminals ??

This ESO have not even left his own small town all his life, he does not know how life looks like in other countries ?

why should me, SYRIAN, condemn the stoning in Nigeria ? it is the NIGERIANS WISHES and you should respect it...they want SHARIA LAW and it is not your business to tell them this is barbaric, because they think you are barbaric, and guess what ? they are right.

 

[otheadp]

all we ask is someone who can read write and spell to speak for Muslims.
is PM the best they've got?

somebody shoot him and put him out of his misery.
i hope you get chemically castrated to prevent your handicapped mutation of an offspring from suffering and spreading non-coherent verbal vomit all over

please go away

 

[Flores]

all we ask is someone who can read write and spell to speak for Muslims.
is PM the best they've got?

somebody shoot him and put him out of his misery.
i hope you get chemically castrated to prevent your handicapped mutation of an offspring from suffering and spreading non-coherent verbal vomit all over

please go away

PMS, dare not answer him back. Just take this as a hint to slow down your Islamic crusade...slow down, because we are tired, and I'm sortta missing my discussions with Atheists in regards to whether god exist or not?

 

[otheadp]

PMS, dare not answer him back. Just take this as a hint to slow down your Islamic crusade...slow down, because we are tired, and I'm sortta missing my discussions with Atheists in regards to whether god exist or not?

don't worry "sister Flores" D), this was not directed at u in any way

 

[ScrollMaker]

I don't understand why Proud_Muslim calls Jews, Nazis.

PM: "WELL SAID....I dont hear those PATHETICS asking every single JEW in the world to stand up and condemn the HORRIBLE ATROCITIES the nazi terrorist state of israel is committing against the palestineans !"

The Israelis are not the one instigating the violence between the cultures. They are not "rewarded" by killing as many people as possible. I do believe that Israelis and the Palestinians should share the land of Israel equally, but it was the Palestinians' own choice not to live side by side with the Jews. I would like to know what horrible atrocities the Israelis' are doing to the Palestinians that you are speaking of. I assure you, it is not the Israelis who keep breaking the peace process. Proud_Muslim, people will take you more seriously if you keep your caps lock under control.

PS: It's funny how topics like these branch off from a Welsh star to Israel and Palestine.