History of the Holocaust
- Thread starter S.A.M.
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antisemitism happened when the factors for hate rose
Actually I think we get both around here. And hysterical logic.
Could you expand on this? What happened during the reformation?
well during the counter reformation which took place during the commonwealth's fall their was a push to put bishops who where extremely against non-catholics the poles started putting these kinds of bishops in office rather than yeah well that's nice to the vatican
the protestant reformation was when a group of catholics broke from the church after the church refused to reform. the selling of indulgences,selling of offices, and generally ammassing a shit ton of wealth. the high numbers of protastents in scandnavia,germany, the low countries, and the british Isles sparked the 30 years war as catholics tried to conquer protestant countries. the counter reformation brought in end to the war as catholics dealt with the problems of the church. it was of course a response to the protestant reformation. the reformation and counter reformation really didn't change much in poland in and of them selves. the main thing brought sweden ascendent and in a series of wars sweden starting taking common wealth lands which started the break down of religious tolerence in poland.
Pjdude is rambling off nonsensical statements of unrelated topics. The fact that his vocabulary is similar to that of a grade schooler and his punctuation is that of a chimp, doesn't help. It's like he briefly read a few wiki pages, came to a conclusion, conjured up the plot holes and there you have it, he's an expert. Actually, that's probably exactly what happened.
And the poles turned on the Jews for the same reason any group of people does. A mix of Governmental conspiracy, propaganda, and to unify themselves through an easy scapegoat.
Invasions use start freaking people out. and they look for people to blame for them losing the war
Thats too generic. Do you have any more information?
SAM asked a question I answered it
actually I have read some of the best and most concise books on polish history. while by no means an expert I have more than a passing familiarity with it which is more than I can say for you. No rather than troll a thread try and you know contribute.
and wars are the perfect spark for those. Sam was asking what caused the shift to those things.
sorry that's where my knowledge ends. my readings of polish history kinda glossed over the jews for the most part.
no food.
I will ask you for the last time quit refering to me as food. I know you like the shear childishness of it but act like an adult.
Hmm I don't have much access to Polish history where I am, I'll take a trip to the British library and see if they have anything.
Oy, thats the fun part tho, dont forget the chair raising thing on marriages and bnai mitzvot, I remember seeing a family guy where Stewie the baby says "I wanna be on the chair, Ive always wanted to see what it feels like to be top Jew"
Lol.
Maybe you could stop by on your way to Finnsbury Park.
Remember, Google is your friend. - http://www.polishjews.org/history1.htm
http://members.core.com/~mikerose/history2.htm
Social and political history of the Jews in Poland, 1919-1939 - By Joseph Marcus (http://www.amazon.com/gp/search?index=books&linkCode=qs&keywords=9027932395)
Fraggle Rocker
Staff member
Geeze lady, then you don't know much about Western history AT ALL, not just eastern Europe! The Reformation was one of the pivotal events of the last two thousand years in this part of the world: the ascendance of Christianity, the Reformation, the Renaissance, the American Revolution, World War II.
The Reformation was the "reforming" of Christianity from the autocratic Catholic Church to various denominations of Protestantism, each with its own model of administration for a Christian community--ranging from "do your own thing" to a photocopy of Catholicism. It arguably started in Germany when Martin Luther, a priest, rebelled against much of the church dogma that had more to do with worldly affairs than with the traditions of faith and charity that Jesus tried to establish. The Lutheran Church is still the predominant denomination in Germany and Scandinavia.
John Calvin is another important figure in the Reformation, and many denominations consider themselves Calvinists. The Church of England, represented outside England as Anglican and Episcopalian congregations, was (IIRC) the first Protestant church to be institutionalized and, in a step backwards, was the official mandatory religion in England for a long time.
The essence of Protestantism is to "protest" the restrictions of Catholicism, and Protestants manifest that protest by scattering into (probably) hundreds of denominations, each of which interprets the Bible slightly differently and has its own set of more or less rigorous practices.
The net result of the Reformation is the Freedom of Religion that is enshrined in the U.S. Constitution but is also enforced somewhat less melodramatically in most of the Western nations--after taking several centuries to gel of course.
Without the Reformation, the Renaissance probably could never have happened. (And please don't tell me you've never heard of the Renaissance. It's the reason the entire world is Eurocentric.) The medieval Catholic Church was so hostile to new ideas--particularly those that conflicted with its dogma like Galileo's refutation of the geocentric universe--that science, art, and all of Western culture might still be mired in the Dark Ages.
Predictably, the Reformation generated many horrible wars: Protestants rebelling against Catholic national leaders, Catholic countries fighting against Protestant countries, and (since religion is a Stone Age relic that reinforces tribalism) Protestant countries battling with one another.
The founding of the United States can be analyzed as part of the Reformation, or perhaps as a Second Reformation. As I mentioned, the Church of England had basically established itself as the new Catholic church, and no other churches were allowed in the country. People who did not agree with COE dogma and policy were persecuted. A few boatloads of them (we call them "the Pilgrims") managed to escape to North America and the rest, as we say, is history.
William Penn's Quakers also fled England and played an important role in the founding of our country, and we have a state named after him: "Penn's Sylvania." Persecuted Presbyterians from Scotland, persecuted Mennonites from Germany, and several other groups of European outcasts came here in their quest for freedom. (See my thread in Politics about how America sees itself as Moses, leading people from all over the world to a new Promised Land.)
Even Jews (or perhaps especially Jews, as elaborated in my other thread) fled to America from the antisemitism that was rampant in Europe--even post-Reformation Europe. America took the Reformation one step further and extended freedom of religion to non-Christians.
The Reformation made Europe what it is today, and made America possible. You'll never understand the United States if you don't understand the Reformation.
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