help me out guys

[Pete]

CHRISTIANS ONLY!!!

IF YOU ARE NON-CHRISTIAN, AND BELIEVE THAT ONE OPTION FITS WITH THE OPINION OF THE MAJORITY OF CHRISTIANS YOU SPEAK WITH, PICK THAT BOX.

just trying to get a better idea of what people think. some christians told me i can be a rapist so long as i believe in jesus, and still go to heaven. i wondered what other christians might think of that.

According to Paul, it's deadset simple:
Romans 10:9-10

...if you declare with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and if you believe with your heart that God raised him from the dead, then you will be saved.
It is by believing with the heart that you are justified, and by making the declaration with your lips that you are saved.​

According to Jesus, it's a little more difficult:
Matthew 19:17

...If you want to enter life, obey the commandments.​

Who do you think is more authoritative?

 

[codanblad]

Believing Jesus takes one to come to acknowledge they are sinners needing saving. And that is the truth of our situation. Believing Jesus takes believing in the truth of Gods will as given through the prophets that what God calls sin is sin and what God calls good is good. It is salvation by agreement with God, and that is the only way we could ever have salvation because no person has ever gone through life being perfect or even becoming perfect. As has already been stated those who resist sin in the flesh never succeed and many of those who are struggling under the bondage of false religions to be sinless are full of sinful thoughts. As Jesus said a thought is the same as an act. to even look at a woman and think of committing adultery with her is the same as having done it and to hate another person is to be a murderer.

There is no way to God but by accepting the truth. The fullness of that truth came to us through the Messiah Jesus.

It is not gullible to have an accurate measurement of yourself, it is gullible to think your something better than you are and try for the rest of your life to brain wash yourself into maintaining that delusion.



All Praise The Ancient Of Days

just looking at these quotes Romans 10:9-10
...if you declare with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and if you believe with your heart that God raised him from the dead, then you will be saved.
It is by believing with the heart that you are justified, and by making the declaration with your lips that you are saved.
Matthew 19:17
...If you want to enter life, obey the commandments.

does the bible specify that believing in jesus means agreeing with and observing everything he said? i mean i believe in my brother, that he exists, that my father is his father, that he was born on a certain date etc. doesn't mean i like him lol.

i mean i could believe in jesus but not like god. do i have to believe that jesus is infallible? what if i believe in jesus but think the bible was wrong about him, if despite my best efforts i went around robbing people thinking that's what jesus expected of me?

 

[swarm]

Take adstar for example. It wouldn't do to have him wandering about free.

 

[Adstar]

just looking at these quotes Romans 10:9-10
...if you declare with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and if you believe with your heart that God raised him from the dead, then you will be saved.
It is by believing with the heart that you are justified, and by making the declaration with your lips that you are saved.
Matthew 19:17
...If you want to enter life, obey the commandments.

does the bible specify that believing in jesus means agreeing with and observing everything he said? i mean i believe in my brother, that he exists, that my father is his father, that he was born on a certain date etc. doesn't mean i like him lol.

But Believing in Jesus and Believing Jesus are two different things. If one does not believe Jesus (His teachings/His Word) but proclaims to believe in Jesus. Then it must be asked of them, Who is the Jesus you believe in? Is it the true Jesus or another jesus invented by tradition.

2 Corrinthians 11
3 But I fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 4 For if he who comes preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or if you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted—you may well put up with it!

Jesus said “But why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do the things which I say?" i can add to that why do people call Him Lord and not even believe what he said?


Believing in Jesus is of no effect if you Do not believe Jesus, all you believe in then is just a twisted construct of the traditions of men.

i mean i could believe in jesus but not like god. do i have to believe that jesus is infallible?

Yes Jesus is infallible.

what if i believe in jesus but think the bible was wrong about him,

Then you are only believing in a jesus of your own construct. Your not believing Jesus but believing in a jesus cut down to a point where he is acceptable to your biases and opinions. You will then not believe in Jesus but you will believe in a cut down and altered jesus of your own making.



All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[swarm]

some christians told me i can be a rapist so long as i believe in jesus, and still go to heaven. i wondered what other christians might think of that.

Universalists believe that everyone goes to heaven eventually. Rapists, Hitler, fundies, doesn't matter.

They hooked up with the Unitarians a while back and formed the UUs (unitarian universalists). A while back there was a schism where the majority of UUs decided that they weren't really xtians any more, but some UUs wanted to still be xtians.

There are various sects of xtian who more or less hold the universalist position. Usually there is a caveat that you have to repent and be saved, but not always.

 

[swarm]

Then you are only believing in a jesus of your own construct.

So believing some one else's construct is ok, but believing your own is a no-no?

 

[codanblad]

i mean i could believe in jesus but not like god. do i have to believe that jesus is infallible?

Then you are only believing in a jesus of your own construct. Your not believing Jesus but believing in a jesus cut down to a point where he is acceptable to your biases and opinions. You will then not believe in Jesus but you will believe in a cut down and altered jesus of your own making.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

are you also saying the bible is infallible? i haven't felt any divine presence, and the bible is a bunch of letters written by men, i found what i read of it ridiculously boring and repetitive. how am i supposed to know/believe jesus? i prayed and believed as a child, i got nothing out of that.

 

[jayleew]

are you also saying the bible is infallible? i haven't felt any divine presence, and the bible is a bunch of letters written by men, i found what i read of it ridiculously boring and repetitive. how am i supposed to know/believe jesus? i prayed and believed as a child, i got nothing out of that.

Let go of trying if you haven't already. (not necessarily talking to you codanblad) Take the peaceful sanity of not trying to believe anymore, and just fess up and say, "I don't believe. I have been lyling to myself and others for the sake of myself and others." if you don't believe. That marks your road for recovery, whether it be into theism or atheism in the future. I am fully prepared to reenter theism now that I have accepted the facts, but I will not without a good reason to. And I am just fine with that. If I become a Christian again, it will be because of my own choice, not my parents choice to indoctrinate me.

 

[Adstar]

are you also saying the bible is infallible? i haven't felt any divine presence, and the bible is a bunch of letters written by men, i found what i read of it ridiculously boring and repetitive. how am i supposed to know/believe jesus? i prayed and believed as a child, i got nothing out of that.

But what did you believe in? Who or what where you believing in?

Look at it this way. If God wants people to know His will and there are people around who think they know Him but in reality have got a very wrong picture of Him, what is God to do? Leave them there happy and content in a false belief or do something to take away that contentment to cause them to lose faith in that false view of Him,

There are a lot of people who have left a false belief in Jesus believing that their false view was the only view. Then later in life they re-visit thoughts on God and Seek anew. Then God moves to lead them to come to a correct view.

Another thing, most people i know who have read one of the Gospels have not found the story and words of Jesus boring, irrespective of their final decision on the matter. The Gospel message is in the Gospels and they are a very short part of the bible.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[leopold]

i don't get that part, why does jesus let you into heaven just because you believe in him? what purpose does that serve? cos ur gullible i'll spare you from eternal damnation? your beliefs depend on what kind of person you are, and god determined what kind of person you are.

don't feel alone, i don't get it either.

 

[codanblad]

But what did you believe in? Who or what where you believing in?

Look at it this way. If God wants people to know His will and there are people around who think they know Him but in reality have got a very wrong picture of Him, what is God to do? Leave them there happy and content in a false belief or do something to take away that contentment to cause them to lose faith in that false view of Him,

There are a lot of people who have left a false belief in Jesus believing that their false view was the only view. Then later in life they re-visit thoughts on God and Seek anew. Then God moves to lead them to come to a correct view.

Another thing, most people i know who have read one of the Gospels have not found the story and words of Jesus boring, irrespective of their final decision on the matter. The Gospel message is in the Gospels and they are a very short part of the bible.

so whilst seeking god as a child, he thought it a better idea to ignore me completely rather than just push me in the right direction? i was a child, i didn't have the higher reasoning to question what i was being told and find the 'true' god. doesn't that make all children godless, unless they happen to be born into the right family?

another issue i have is if i didn't or don't 'truly' believe, why did god make me so skeptical? Considering he's the greatest power in the universe, he makes very little effort to convince people to follow him. 2000 years after sending A SINGLE PERSON he's gathered a very small percentage of people that we could call true devoted followers.

i'll try out the gospels, i can't recall ever reading from them.

 

[Adstar]

so whilst seeking god as a child, he thought it a better idea to ignore me completely rather than just push me in the right direction?

You may have not been ready to be shown the right direction.

i was a child, i didn't have the higher reasoning to question what i was being told and find the 'true' god.

And thus you may not have been ready to take on the message of God.

doesn't that make all children godless, unless they happen to be born into the right family?

Well depends on what age child your talking about? But yes as children leave the age of innocence they become Godless. Not sure how being born into the right family has anything to do with it. Each and every person irrespective of what family they are born into become sinners.

another issue i have is if i didn't or don't 'truly' believe, why did god make me so skeptical? Considering he's the greatest power in the universe, he makes very little effort to convince people to follow him. 2000 years after sending A SINGLE PERSON he's gathered a very small percentage of people that we could call true devoted followers.

Yes but after Sending that "SINGLE PERSON" He has guarded that message in the Bible all those centuries and not a day has not passed where he has had a people on earth who believe in Him.

In a way it is like what i said before God does not need us But God wants us. I say this God could use His great power to come and pay each individual a personal visit. But he wants to use the Message of Jesus to be the thing that attracts. It's not what God can do but it is what God Has chosen to do.



All Praise The Ancient Of Days


i'll try out the gospels, i can't recall ever reading from them.

 

[codanblad]

Not sure how being born into the right family has anything to do with it. Each and every person irrespective of what family they are born into become sinners.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

i was saying the right family might teach you all the right things about god, that's how a child could truly believe in god.

i still feel god has neglected mankind, a lot of people are in hell because of the methods he has chosen, and the way he created the world. i can't respect a god who does such a poor job unless i embrace the notion of 'all part of his plan', and that seems like blind faith to me.

can you recommend a part of the gospels or just all of it?

 

[Adstar]

i was saying the right family might teach you all the right things about god, that's how a child could truly believe in god.

The family might give you an early start in seeking. But no i do not believe the right family can make their children saved. Salvation comes when a person reacts personally to the message of Jesus with conviction and agreement and trust. A lot of kids just want to please their parents and say they believe and accept only for the positive affirmations they receive for doing so. Also many of them have an incomplete understanding of what they are agreeing to because it is coming to the second hand. In fact i believe it can be a disadvantage to have the right parents because it is harder to come to the truth the closer you where to the truth before you rebel.

i still feel god has neglected mankind, a lot of people are in hell because of the methods he has chosen, and the way he created the world.

Well firstly we don't know who is in hell. and as the final judgement has not yet happened no one is yet in the lake of fire.

i can't respect a god who does such a poor job unless i embrace the notion of 'all part of his plan', and that seems like blind faith to me.

Well try to consider the simple message of Jesus and go from there. Also until the end comes and we can see for ourselves the end result, we cannot judge the quality of His Work, can we?

can you recommend a part of the gospels or just all of it?

The Gospel/book of Matthew is probably the most detailed. Many believers love the Gospel/book of John because it is deeper.

If you’re looking for a significant part within a Gospel read Matthew starting in chapter 5 to the end of Chapter 7. Here is a link to the chapters if you want to read it:


http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=47&chapter=5&version=50


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Lebo]

God knows you the best, if you are chosing wrong or right is up to you. Only God knows your heart, I don't so I can't tell you where you will end up but the more you learn about what good and bad is and if you deny the good than I say again, only God knows your heart.

 

[swarm]

God knows you the best, if you are chosing wrong or right is up to you. Only God knows your heart, I don't so I can't tell you where you will end up but the more you learn about what good and bad is and if you deny the good than I say again, only God knows your heart.

Which god?