Haitians thank God rather than rescue workers

[Asguard]

I don't think that's a fair comparison. People who go to church regularly are bombarded with pleas for various charities, so they are likely to give small amounts every week. We plan and budget our charity contributions and send out a gigantic check to one organization (the Central Asia Project) twice a year. Catch us in the wrong month and it will look like we're not generous people.

I hand food and money to homeless people all the time, but it would probably not occur to me to count that as "charity." In America, charities are institutions, and you get a tax exemption for your donations to them. You don't get that for donating money directly to the people who need it!

i agree, there are about 5 fund raising drives i ALWAYS donate to

Blue sep, Movemeber, Pink ribbon day, Anzac Day, Poppy day on top of that i will give money to people like St John if they happen to be doing a drive but the other 5 i will delibratly seek out. Then on top of that are any emergency donations like Hatie or the Black sat bush fires. Currently im funneling all my donations through PBs work because they match staff donations $ for $

 

[Orleander]

Now the Haitians are locking up American missionaries who went over to help them.
By stealing their children.
Shouldn't they just send these misguided people home, and get on with the job in hand?

And I think maybe they were taking advantage of some poverty stricken stressed parents by saying "Hey, let me take your kid. They will have a better life in America"
I strongly think those missionaries deserved to be locked up. They can't do that here in the US, but they tried to get away with it in Haiti

 

[Jan Ardena]

I saw this on the news a couple of times.
People are being saved from underneath the rumble by the hard working rescue workers, and the first thing they say is "Thank you, God, for saving me." Sometimes it's the bystanders too.
It's embarrassing!

Can anyone help me understand why they would thank God rather than the rescue workers?

Do you have a link?

jan

 

[Asguard]

And I think maybe they were taking advantage of some poverty stricken stressed parents by saying "Hey, let me take your kid. They will have a better life in America"
I strongly think those missionaries deserved to be locked up. They can't do that here in the US, but they tried to get away with it in Haiti

wow, for once we seem to be on the same side

 

[StrangerInAStrangeLand]

I can understand that they would say "Thank God" as an expression. But it was more than that. They were really thanking God.

If I go out of my way to help someone in need, out of the goodness of my heart, I would be utterly insulted if the people I helped would just turn their backs on me and started thanking God for it. I wouldn't need any thanks, but to thank 'someone else' for it.. I think it's embarrassing.

I noticed it's a trend though. Believers in God tend to thank God if other people do something good, but they tend to blame it on the person if they do something bad. Perhaps believers in God that read this can comment on this.

=
If only I could have a dollar for each time I've experienced that. It's stupid, insulting, ignorant, indecent, arrogant, extremely selfcentered & nasty. I'm damn sick&tired of it.

 

[S.A.M.]

I don't think that's a fair comparison. People who go to church regularly are bombarded with pleas for various charities, so they are likely to give small amounts every week. We plan and budget our charity contributions and send out a gigantic check to one organization (the Central Asia Project) twice a year. Catch us in the wrong month and it will look like we're not generous people.

I hand food and money to homeless people all the time, but it would probably not occur to me to count that as "charity." In America, charities are institutions, and you get a tax exemption for your donations to them. You don't get that for donating money directly to the people who need it!

Its not surprising that people who think its their social duty to help others will be more forthcoming with it than people who don't. Its human nature to take duties more seriously than choices.

 

[iceaura]

Its not surprising that people who think its their social duty to help others will be more forthcoming with it than people who don't.

This is so, and I would not be surprised to find religious people giving more to charity - or the reverse: charitable people tending to gravitate to religion.

The human nature involved, though, might not be so much the duty imposed on oneself, as the perception of duty imposed on others - the guarantee of mutual cooperation, and avoidance of being taken advantage of.

This may be why the secular givers are more inclined to impose taxes on themselves - a better guarantee of mutual cooperation even than religion, no? Compare the self-imposed taxes in secular vs religious communities in the US.

In the meantime, despite agreeing with the general conclusion I echo Fraggle's point: the polls and surveys you link would definitely under-report my own or my wife's charitable stuff, both in time and money. We, like Fraggle, budget and target lump sums semi-annually rather than hand out small amounts on frequent demand. And in our case almost none of it shows up on tax forms or other survey materials. Neither is our time either regularly frequent or recorded. This pattern may be more common among the less religious.

Notice that when all is said and done, the more religious areas or general regions in the US seem to be in greater need, worse off - that extra charity is somehow not visible in the outcome.

 

[S.A.M.]

the more religious areas or general regions in the US seem to be in greater need, worse off - that extra charity is somehow not visible in the outcome.

Indeed, that is a phenomenon worthy of investigation, like the Haitians who eat mud cakes.

 

[iceaura]

Indeed, that is a phenomenon worthy of investigation, like the Haitians who eat mud cakes.

The investigations do not lend much credit to the religions involved, with their famous charity.

 

[S.A.M.]

The investigations do not lend much credit to the religions involved, with their famous charity.

It says a lot more about "secular" societies and collateral damages.

 

[iceaura]

It says a lot more about "secular" societies and collateral damages

Says what?

Compare, for example, Haiti and Cuba. Or ponder the charity of the strongly Christian French and Spanish, then US, as they arranged for Haiti's future.

Haiti has had the joy of being colonized and exploited by the most strongly religious - the most charitable, we recognize - of the available powers, at every turn - even the Muslims had a crack at it, with Syria's outpost.

The most religious areas of the US have somewhat similar histories of the benefits of charity, easing the lot of the slave and the despised.

 

[S.A.M.]

Yeah the French and Americans are as Christian as Obama is. Obvious role model being Jesus. Which is a good explanation for why the Haitians eat mud pies

 

[scifes]

*grabs the can opener*

One could say that God sent the earthquake as well. I don't hear them thanking God for that..

maybe they think they deserved the earth quake for one reason or another?

like the expression....no atheists in foxholes

lol or in falling planes..

It's akin to an abused wife thanking a husband for bringing her flowers after he put her in the hospital with a jaw shattering right cross. I really fail to see how Haitians have any reason to be grateful to any deities at this time.

well "any reason" could be that she was caught cheating, so some flowers sure are nice..

The funny thing is that if you help yourself God doesn't have to help you. And yet he is given the credit.

hmm, and vice versa? if god doesn't help you then you can't help yourself?

I cannot understand why someone would think of themselves as, effectively, an empty shell guided by the hand of God.
What's the reasoning behind it? They can make decisions for themselves, right? They can choose to help someone without intervention from a higher power, no?

from personal experience enmos, no.
many time you have all the will to help someone, but there's just no way.
when that way shows up, even you feel thankful for being able to be a helpful "shell".

To me, there is something very depressing about their way of thinking. They must think humans are inherently evil or something and can only do good if some unknowable force makes them do it.

lol "here be monsters" comes to mind.

And if God really did sent those rescue workers, didn't he also do what he was supposed to do? And he does deserve thanks?

as i said, maybe they see it that what god SHOULD do, which he did, was sending the earth quake(just like the wife), and actually saving them (or allowing them being saved)(or some of them) is a good gesture from him, one which he wasn't "supposed" to do.

If a lab-worker achieves something amazing, you don't praise the protocol, you praise the lab-worker. Right?

if the lab-worker is given an amazing protocol, then no, you praise the protocol, and a pat on the back for the lab-worker for not screwing it up.

Anyhow, I think it's interesting that you compare God with lab protocols. Can you elaborate on that comparison?

 

[iceaura]

Yeah the French and Americans are as Christian as Obama is

Or more, yes.

As well as the Haitians themselves, naturally.

The entire history of Haiti is dominated by strongly religious cultures - just the sort that are praised for giving to charity.

As is the the history of most areas of the old Confederacy, in the US - the poorer regions, now, and also the ones mentioned here as giving more to charity, the "red states".

These are also the parts of the US that disproportionately supply the soldiers for the US army - service, charity, duty - including especially such forces as the guard company formerly on duty at Abu Ghraib (Lindsey England, say, came from a strongly religious, small town, poorer community of the kind known for much charity giving as mentioned earlier here), the 1st Cavalry and 82nd Airborne famous at Fallujah likewise. And so forth.

The call of duty has many sides to it.

 

[S.A.M.]

And of course, the Haitians are to blame for their conditions just as the Arabs and Africans are to blame for theirs.

 

[iceaura]

And of course, the Haitians are to blame for their conditions just as the Arabs and Africans are to blame for theirs.

Or not, as I posted above, for the literate actually interested in discussion.

 

[S.A.M.]

If they are all religious, they certainly share responsibility in their own conditions.

Now if only they were led by atheists or were all atheists, things would change for the better

 

[Enmos]

Do you have a link?

jan

No, I tried to look it up but couldn't find it. It was on the Dutch news, but it isn't on their website. You'll just have to trust me on this one.

 

[iceaura]

If they are all religious, they certainly share responsibility in their own conditions.

Not my argument. Yours?

Now if only they were led by atheists or were all atheists, things would change for the better

But they weren't. Unlike Cuba.

Haiti has been oppressed, freed, fought for, fought against, invaded, led, and populated, by the most strongly religious people in the hemisphere, throughout its history.

All of the benefits of the superior charity of the religious, the superior community support, and so forth, have been given to Haiti.

 

[Tanglewood]

I am a first time poster in these forums, but after reading through this thread I feel a need to point something out.

As a rescuer myself hearing someone say "thank God" is not insulting. For one, I'm ofen saying it myself when I find someone alive, especially if they are in good condition. Search and Rescue is a very intensive task, exhausting both mentally and physically, and though in disasters such as Haiti or Katrina we (rescuers) tend to become almost numb after a while, each time someone is pulled from the rubble alive it is a reason to celebrate. In this job you have to prepare yourself mentally for the worst, and when you find someone alive it is a reason to keep going.

Unless you've been out there digging through debris and have found yet another dead body, or another live one, you cannot know what that feels like.

If someone is saying "thank God" or "thank goodness" what does it matter? The rescuers themselves are generally thankful to find them, otherwise they wouldn't be out there searching. Finding someone alive gives rescuers reason to hope, to keep searching in very bad conditions and odds. So, as a rescuer, does hearing someone say "Thank God" instead of "Thank you" insult me? Not at all.

Then again, I am just one of many, but the many I know across America, British Columbia, and a few other countries hold these same views.

No offense is intended towards anyone, I just felt that another pov needed to be represented here.