Haditha slaughter not worth convictions

S.A.M.

S.A.M.

uniquely dreadful
Valued Senior Member
A Marine will be court-martialed on reduced charges in the killings of 24 Iraqi men, women and children in the town of Haditha in 2005, the Marine Corps announced Monday.

Staff Sgt. Frank Wuterich, 27, of Meriden, Conn., will stand trial on charges of voluntary manslaughter, aggravated assault, reckless endangerment, dereliction of duty and obstruction of justice. No trial date was set.

More serious charges of unpremeditated murder, as well as charges of soliciting another to commit an offense and making a false official statement, were dismissed by the Marine Corps.

Four enlisted Marines were initially charged with murder in the case, and four officers were charged with failing to investigate the deaths. Charges against several of the men have been dropped, and none will face murder charges.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-12-31-marines-haditha_N.htm


How surprising!!!:bugeye:

310807Haditha.jpg


The victims who weren't

House #1 -- 7 killed, 2 injured (but survived), 2 escaped
1. Abdul Hamid Hassan Ali, 76 -- grandfather, father and husband. Died with nine rounds in the chest and abdomen.
2. Khamisa Tuma Ali, 66 -- wife of Abdul Hamid Hassan Ali
3. Rashid Abdul Hamid, 30.
4. Walid Abdul Hamid Hassan, 35.
5. Jahid Abdul Hamid Hassan, middle-aged man.
6. Asma Salman Rasif, 32.
7. Abdullah Walid, 4.
Injured: Iman, 8, and Abdul Rahman, 5.
Escaped: Daughter-in-law, Hibbah, escaped with 2-month-old Asia
House #2 -- 8 killed, 1 survivor: Shot at close range and attacked with grenades
8. Younis Salim Khafif, 43 -- husband of Aeda Yasin Ahmed, father.
9. Aeda Yasin Ahmed, 41 -- wife of Younis Salim Khafif, killed trying to shield her youngest daughter Aisha.
10. Muhammad Younis Salim, 8 -- son.
11. Noor Younis Salim, 14 -- daughter.
12. Sabaa Younis Salim, 10 -- daughter.
13. Zainab Younis Salim, 5 -- daughter.
14. Aisha Younis Salim, 3 -- daughter.
15. A 1-year-old girl staying with the family.
Survived: Safa Younis Salim, 13.
House #3 -- 4 brothers killed
16. Jamal Ahmed, 41.
17. Marwan Ahmed, 28.
18. Qahtan Ahmed, 24.
19. Chasib Ahmed, 27.
Taxi -- 5 killed: Passengers were students at the Technical Institute in Saqlawiyah
20. Ahmed Khidher, taxi driver.
21. Akram Hamid Flayeh.
22. Khalid Ayada al-Zawi.
23. Wajdi Ayada al-Zawi.
24. Mohammed Battal Mahmoud.
Source: United for Peace and Justice[17]
 
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"The killings occurred Nov. 19, 2005, after a roadside bomb hit a Marine convoy, killing the driver of a Humvee and wounding two other Marines. Wuterich and a squad member, Sgt. Sanick Dela Cruz, allegedly shot five men by a car at the scene. Wuterich then ordered his men into several houses, where they cleared rooms with grenades and gunfire, killing unarmed civilians in the process.

At his preliminary hearing, Wuterich said that he regretted the loss of civilian life but that he believed he was coming under fire from the homes and was operating within the rules of engagement when he ordered his men to assault the buildings."

In the throws of a surprise attack, SAM would insist on first asking her assailants if they were carrying weapons or not.
 
(Q) said:
"The killings occurred Nov. 19, 2005, after a roadside bomb hit a Marine convoy, killing the driver of a Humvee and wounding two other Marines. Wuterich and a squad member, Sgt. Sanick Dela Cruz, allegedly shot five men by a car at the scene. Wuterich then ordered his men into several houses, where they cleared rooms with grenades and gunfire, killing unarmed civilians in the process.

At his preliminary hearing, Wuterich said that he regretted the loss of civilian life but that he believed he was coming under fire from the homes and was operating within the rules of engagement when he ordered his men to assault the buildings."

In the throws of a surprise attack, SAM would insist on first asking her assailants if they were carrying weapons or not.
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I suppose if your children were shot and killed by troops breaking illegally into your house during a fake war imposed on you, you would just laugh it off as just another day. And when they were cleared of all charges you would invite them over for a drink.
 
It is no surprise, nor is anything committed by the lying Government of America. Unfortunately it is usually foreigners who are not fooled by the mirage of perfection that are able to see this.


America will persecute some of their own, yes, but because they have done anything? Because it is truly for justice? Of course not! All is done for support, and the foreign world can see through these actions that America is truly noble and just, but this is a prime example of otherwise.

The true punishment for that Marine, who voluntarily killed so many, is to have his life taken. And then we must look into the greater scheme of things, unto which the greatest blame lies. The Marine is ultimately there by order, and the commander, Bush, is the ultimate villain in this drama.


So.....how'd you like my fancy talk? Been working on it:D
 
Norsefire said:
The true punishment for that Marine, who voluntarily killed so many, is to have his life taken.
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Is that Islamic justice or do you think he deserves to die due to your ill-informed opinion?
 
(Q) said:
Is that Islamic justice or do you think he deserves to die due to your ill-informed opinion?
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No, no, there's execution in America, a Christian nation, is there not?

He deserves to die after VOLUNTARILY MURDERING 20+ PEOPLE
 
John99 said:

For you to stop being a WAR MONGER.
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In the hours after the strike against New York and Washington on September 11, 2001, the City of Seattle, through its police or city council or whomever, decided to shut down. People working in the downtown area were told to find the first ride out of town and get. So we did.

As my coworkers and I began shuffling down the stairs (the elevators were packed and stacked), I encountered a woman who worked in accounting who was in tears. "Why would anybody do something like this?" she wailed. I shrugged and told her we would know more once someone made the call to claim responsibility. When we knew who, we could probably guess why. The idea absolutely confused her. The idea that anybody anywhere in the world could be so angry at something the United States had done seemed so strange because she did not believe Americans or our government had ever done anything to hurt anyone.

At first I was unsettled. Nearly shocked. I remember thinking, "Geez, lady, and you've got a degree." But, as one of my friends reminded, "You can get an advanced degree and never study any real history." True enough; she was an accountant. I don't know what, when you pursue a business degree, your social-studies obligations are.

I tell this story yet again because regardless of what the patriots and jingoists have to say about why a false statement isn't a false statement, and why participants in what has every appearance of a crime should never be held accountable, people ought not wonder why there are people around the world who are ready to fight and kill Americans.

It was obvious before 9/11. The only surprises, really, were that someone finally got around to it, that they swung for the fences, and that Americans seemed to have absolutely no idea anything like that was coming. There was a bomb in '93. And Osama himself told us he was coming in '96. And the American people? They didn't really care. They didn't want to know.

And so it is this time. Most Americans will sleep just fine even if Wuterich walks. They'll sleep better, in fact, if we give him a freakin' medal.

They just shouldn't wonder, though, why some people are ready to kill us all. Drink a cup of coffee with refined sugar in it while driving a single-occupancy SUV to work, and count the number of human-rights deficiencies, exploitations, and violations that moment depends on. The number will go up even further depending on where you work.
 
(Q) said:
In the throws of a surprise attack, SAM would insist on first asking her assailants if they were carrying weapons or not.
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Do you think the 3 year old girl was packing heat?

Or did the soldiers enter the homes and start shooting before they opened their eyes and noticed the homes contained civilian men, women and children (and some babies).

Don't you think it would have been prudent to actually check the houses before clearing them with grenades and gunfire? Lets say in the heat of the moment, they simply forgot to simply check... After the first room was cleared and they noticed the dead were indeed civilians, why keep going and clearing the other rooms and houses? Revenge maybe? Soldiers pissed off someone tried to kill them so just shoot the crap out of anything that moves, even if they happen to be small children? I don't know, what do you think Q? Would you be equally acceptable if a some men entered your homes and killed everyone in it and then claimed it was a mistake? What if it were the police who did it? Would you just shrug and say 'ok'? One or possibly two deaths could be considered a mistake in such a situation. 24 deaths is considered a slaughter and a murderous rampage.
 
Thats good logic there Tiassa. Using that logic every murder can be justified.

At first I was unsettled. Nearly shocked. I remember thinking, "Geez, lady, and you've got a degree." But, as one of my friends reminded, "You can get an advanced degree and never study any real history." True enough; she was an accountant. I don't know what, when you pursue a business degree, your social-studies obligations are.
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Very good, you learned in school that alot of people want to kill alot of people. And of course you will accept it. The best thing you can do then is trade places with the most disenfranchised person you can find, there are millions of them. You can have sam and bells join you.

People want to kill you, and they are justified....very good. You would never survive in prison thats for sure.

The idea that anybody anywhere in the world could be so angry at something the United States had done seemed so strange because she did not believe Americans or our government had ever done anything to hurt anyone.
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It is such a docile world out there isn't it?
 
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John99 said:
Thats good logic there Tiassa. Using that logic every murder can be justified.



Very good, you learned in school that alot of people want to kill alot of people. And of course you will accept it. The best thing you can do then is trade places with the most disenfranchised person you can find, there are millions of them. You can have sam and bells join you.

People want to kill you, and they are justified....very good. You would never survive in prison thats for sure.



It is such a docile world out there isn't it?
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How is this so difficult for someone to understand?

Apply what you just said to the soldiers involved in this massacre. They thought the killings were justified. And you are defending them, which I find quite appalling. I would have assumed any individual with a grain of decency would have recognised their deaths could never be justified. But you refer to us as 'warmongers' because we are able to distinguish that soldiers entering homes and shooting first (as well as throwing grenades), without first checking to make sure the homes were not occupied by civilians, is wrong? How would you feel if one day a plethora of police officers entered your home shooting you and your girlfriend as you sat and watched TV, killing your loved one, and then saying "oops, we thought this house belonged to a drug dealer and that glass of wine ya were holding looked like a gun"? Would you just say "ok!"? Would you think their entering your home, shooting everyone in sight, as being justified? I can assure you, Sam, Tiassa and I would not find it justified if you were ever unfortunate enough to have to go through something like that. Just as we do not view these deaths as being in any way justified.

Do you think shooting a 3 year old girl is justified in any circumstance John? How about the one year old girl?

Now, as to Tiassa's point. Do you not see why you are so hated in the world? When something like this happens and not a single one of those soldiers is charged with murder, don't you see how that would rankle some people? Try hard. Try to imagine the hypothetical situation where police officers with guns enter your home shooting your girlfriend because her glass of wine looked like a gun and imagine none of them were charged with murder. Would you not hate the officers involved and their superiors who let them walk? How can I put this... If you keep stuffing it up constantly, you will have people who hate you and when you stuff it up to the point where you are attempting to justify shooting babies (can there ever be a justification for such an act?), there might be some people out there who will want to kill you in return..
 
Hey BELLS, things like this happen AAAALLLLL the time in the world. All colors, all nationalities, all countries. Would you like for me to post the images?

Do you think shooting a 3 year old girl is justified in any circumstance John? How about the one year old girl?

Now, as to Tiassa's point. Do you not see why you are so hated in the world? When something like this happens and not a single one of those soldiers is charged with murder, don't you see how that would rankle some people? Try hard. Try to imagine the hypothetical situation where police officers with guns enter your home shooting your girlfriend because her glass of wine looked like a gun and imagine none of them were charged with murder. Would you not hate the officers involved and their superiors who let them walk? How can I put this... If you keep stuffing it up constantly, you will have people who hate you and when you stuff it up to the point where you are attempting to justify shooting babies (can there ever be a justification for such an act?), there might be some people out there who will want to kill you in return..
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Listen here BELLS. I have NOT killed anyone, by your logic you are just as much to blame as me and SAM is just as much to blame when India and Pakistan start killing each other again. Blame the whole human race while you are at it.

Why dont you dig up some images of carnage in Rwanda and hate everyone in that country?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rwandan_Genocide

Why dont you tell us BELLS how to stop murder, and how to stop global terrorism. I would love to hear it. You really have some high horses out in the outback.
 
Bells said:
Do you think the 3 year old girl was packing heat?

Or did the soldiers enter the homes and start shooting before they opened their eyes and noticed the homes contained civilian men, women and children (and some babies).

Don't you think it would have been prudent to actually check the houses before clearing them with grenades and gunfire? Lets say in the heat of the moment, they simply forgot to simply check... After the first room was cleared and they noticed the dead were indeed civilians, why keep going and clearing the other rooms and houses? Revenge maybe? Soldiers pissed off someone tried to kill them so just shoot the crap out of anything that moves, even if they happen to be small children? I don't know, what do you think Q? Would you be equally acceptable if a some men entered your homes and killed everyone in it and then claimed it was a mistake? What if it were the police who did it? Would you just shrug and say 'ok'? One or possibly two deaths could be considered a mistake in such a situation. 24 deaths is considered a slaughter and a murderous rampage.
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It was a murderous rampage

Mendoza said Marines under Wuterich's command began clearing nearby houses suspected of containing insurgents responsible for the bombing.

At one house Wuterich gave an order to shoot on sight as Marines waited for a response after knocking on the door, said Mendoza.

"He said 'Just wait till they open the door, then shoot,'" Mendoza said.

Mendoza then said he shot and killed an adult male who appeared in a doorway.

During a subsequent search of the house, Mendoza said he received an order from another Marine, Lance Corporal Stephen Tatum, to shoot seven women and children he had found in a rear bedroom.

"When I opened the door there was just women and kids, two adults were lying down on the bed and there were three children on the bed ... two more were behind the bed," Mendoza said.

"I looked at them for a few seconds. Just enough to know they were not presenting a threat ... they looked scared."

After leaving the room Mendoza told Tatum what he had found.

"I told him there were women and kids inside there. He said 'Well, shoot them,'" Mendoza told prosecutor Lieutenant Colonel Sean Sullivan.

"And what did you say to him?" Sullivan asked.

"I said 'But they're just women and children.' He didn't say nothing."

Mendoza said he returned to a position at the front of the house and heard a door open behind him followed by a loud noise. Returning later that afternoon to conduct body retrieval, Mendoza said he found a room full of corpses.
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http://rawstory.com/news/afp/Marine_tells_of_order_to_execute_Ha_08302007.html


If these are established rules of combat, no wonder they don't want to do body counts.
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Bells said:
Do you think the 3 year old girl was packing heat?

Or did the soldiers enter the homes and start shooting before they opened their eyes and noticed the homes contained civilian men, women and children (and some babies).

Don't you think it would have been prudent to actually check the houses before clearing them with grenades and gunfire? Lets say in the heat of the moment, they simply forgot to simply check... After the first room was cleared and they noticed the dead were indeed civilians, why keep going and clearing the other rooms and houses? Revenge maybe? Soldiers pissed off someone tried to kill them so just shoot the crap out of anything that moves, even if they happen to be small children? I don't know, what do you think Q? Would you be equally acceptable if a some men entered your homes and killed everyone in it and then claimed it was a mistake? What if it were the police who did it? Would you just shrug and say 'ok'? One or possibly two deaths could be considered a mistake in such a situation. 24 deaths is considered a slaughter and a murderous rampage.
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Oh yes, I like bells theory that these guys had every intention to go on a murderous rampage. Yes, that sounds perfectly logical. Clearly, bells and SAM, of course, have served in the military and know exactly what it's like to go into combat. They're sage advice in this regard should be considered perfectly valid.

:rolleyes:
 
(Q) said:
Oh yes, I like bells theory that these guys had every intention to go on a murderous rampage. Yes, that sounds perfectly logical. Clearly, bells and SAM, of course, have served in the military and know exactly what it's like to go into combat. They're sage advice in this regard should be considered perfectly valid.

:rolleyes:
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According to their own witnesses, they did.

Or do you know any different?
 
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