You can't answer the question?
I'll ask it again.
Does consenting to sex with 1 or 2 men mean you have consented to sex with 6 men or more?
Of course not. But that's a strawman... at no point does it appear she asked them to stop either. You think a half dozen drunken rugby players are going to be paying too much attention to "subtle signals"?
Subtle, as in her pointing at Johns at one point and saying "I want you again"?
Let me give you another indication of just how bad it was and the simple fact that they (the men in that room) knew it was bad or what they had done to her was wrong.
Now, what does that sound like to you? Doesn't sound like it was much fun for her, does it? "She's had enough"..
Doesn't "sound like" anything at all. Could mean anything to anyone who wasn't there and only sees words in print.
Same with the carpark afterwards. Does anyone know how she replied to his apology? I don't.
After all, it's not as if her reply was important, is it.
Again Asguard, what everyone in Australia, with the exception of you and a few choice individuals, seems to understand is that the NRL is reknown for actions which result in the degradation of women. That is what has caused the massive uproar with this case.
Not at all, Bells. What caused the massive uproar and subsequent "investigation" is that it involved high-profile sports stars.
The feelings of sports stars towards women (as a generalisation) are already well known.
It was her humiliation...
That same humiliation which caused her to brag about it the next day?
Or perhaps the humiliation of the whole town knowing about it and her sudden need to not be seen as a total whore in the eyes of her peers, the media, and audiences in two countries or more?
Which particular cause of humiliation are we speaking about here? The event itself, or the aftermath?
Let me ask you a question. Do you feel any anger at all towards a certain individual in the media who brought the whole event into the light again after such a long time and apparently didn't "consider the feelings" of this girl at all?
Not to mention Johns, who already been investigated and cleared at the time.
It was a woman, by the way.
Or is that different?
How hard can it be to sink in? They never spoke to her during the whole ordeal. They only spoke about her. S&M? She didn't consent to S&M, did she?
S&M? Is this something else that's "come out afterward" when she's under the spotlight, or did you just throw it in yourself?
I hadn't heard about it... but then I wasn't really paying much attention after the first couple of days.
She didn't consent to being treated like a skank or a "slurry" that they've picked up.
Right. So what you're really pissed off about, is that these Rugby players she got went out looking for, got drunk and went home with didn't
make love to her.
It's a fairly fine distinction for someone to make in claiming that while going out on the town with the express purpose of fucking a couple of drunken rugby players didn't make her feel like a whore, having it
exposed that she was eventually had by a half dozen did.
Then she begins to complain about not being treated like a lady?
Just because there was not enough evidence to charge them, it does not make them innocent.
Nice spin.
The charges weren't dropped because there "wasn't enough evidence".
The charges were dropped because the girl got herself into a situation she didn't quite expect, and then went along with it. The charges were dropped, Bells, because it didn't appear to be a rape at all in the eyes of the police who investigated the incident long
before the media got hold of it.
And it does not make what they did to her right either. I guess you are the type of person who doesn't care if public personalities and sportsmen in particular humiliate and treat women like shit all the time (yes, this kind of thing goes on all the time).
Apparently, she didn't care either. Then it happened to her.
It would seem that Johns still doesn't seem to grasp that it is wrong. He's apparently felt guilt, but not about what was done to her as his apologies have shown quite clearly. He is only sorry because it has affected himself and his family in a negative way. He is sorry because he cheated on his wife. He is not sorry about what he did to Clare one bit.
Now, of course, that's because he's a high profile sports star who sees women as objects, right? The type who's probably seen a hundred others do very much the same thing, and had no reason to expect anything else from this one.
It doesn't appear to have occurred to you that he doesn't feel guilt because there was no indication at the time he had anything to feel guilty
for.
He's supposed to be so concerned for the feelings of a girl who points at him and says "I want you again" while all this is going on? Is he supposed to have a degree in psychology and think to himself "Oh, wait... it's all an act, she's not having fun at all"?
Johns appeared to be contrite afterwards (a long time afterwards, I might add) because his career was suddenly threatened. And his marriage. We know that.
Why wouldn't she want it to be her daughter? What about him? After all, if it wasn't illegal, he should be alright with offering his 19 year old daughter to his favourite football team for a bit of team bonding, eh?
It's not illegal to offer your daughter to a football team. It's merely a bit sick. It would probably cost you your daughter, too... but then again, it might not.
Because we all know, Bells, that while there is a fair amount of derogatory conduct and feeling towards women evidenced by high profile male celebrities, there are also an equal amount of women quite willing to go along with that. There always have been.
Neither is what happened to this girl illegal. That's why no charges were laid, Bells.
If it was my daughter? I'd be sympathetic (understatement). I'd also hope she learned a valuable lesson from it.
I wouldn't see her as a whore, or a rape victim - just a young girl who did something stupid.
Now can you see why this is so wrong? Why what they did to her was just so wrong? She didn't consent or remove consent. She consented to sex with two men. Just because she didn't say "no" does not mean she consented. She was not in a position to say "no" or to consent.
Ah, no, wait a minute.
You are
assuming she was too petrified to say no, because you've heard that happens in some cases and because that's what she says now she's under the spotlight.
The choice was taken from her when those other men started swarming into the room.
No, it wasn't. She always had the choice to say no. She didn't.
Interesting that you seem to think women in general are so weak willed as to require laws to protect them when they say
nothing. Let's not mention again her asking for
more at at least one point.
As she admitted herself, she was in shock and she felt they exerted a power over her.
And, strangely enough, if you look on the internet for a minute you'll find that line is rather common.
About as common, I'd say, as Johns' crocodile tears after the event.
Both had an image to defend.
When those men swarmed into that room, her ability to consent went out the window they were climbing through. She was no longer on an equal footing and the pressure on her to carry on and do what they wanted would have been immense. That is why the current laws of consent are being looked at as being wholly inadequate. Because they do not offer protection to women like Clare.
And how are they supposed to change those laws, Bells?
Every girl who gets had the night before from a casual encounter in a bar, gets embarrassed, cries rape and suddenly starts talking about how she "couldn't say no because she was under pressure" will see him in jailed on her whim?
Perhaps it would be easier for women if they simply didn't get into those sort of situations.
Ah, but now we're talking about the youthful lack of wisdom, aren't we?
And that's the thing isn't it. Thousands of young people all over the globe are stupid at one point or another and end up paying a price. Most of the time no one gets hurt, and the net result is acute embarrassment.
The girl didn't get hurt, Bells. Well, maybe she was a little sore for a couple of days.
Same sort of "hurt" a young kid who got drunk and goes out looking for a fight, and picked one with someone he couldn't handle. That happens all the time, too.
Only, that young kid is merely seen as being a stupid young kid, and any attempt by him to call assault afterwards would be met with derision.
And, strangely enough, no lengthy discussions here about how he was too petrified to say "no" in the middle of the fight, and the law should be changed to protect him.
Are you going to call for laws to be introduced protecting all kids from making stupid mistakes, now?
She got embarrassed. She felt stupid. She got herself into something she didn't know how to deal with.
And everyone found out about it.
Well, welcome to the world. See, a few years ago it would have been a lesson, and she would grown up a bit. A little older, a little wiser, as they say.
Now, she's a psychologically damaged rape victim in the eyes of the world, and everyone who knows her.
I wonder which she thinks is worse, now.