And you just contributed more noise. In any case, I don't care what you doubt or not.
Gravity slows down time.
- Thread starter chinglu
- Start date
And you just contributed more noise. In any case, I don't care what you doubt or not.
Whatever floats your boat!
You are having difficulty in detaching yourself from me. Why is that ? It's bordering on stalking, now. Leave me alone. Why can't you do this ?
Stalking!!
OK, remember that line about the boat?
I have no idea what you are talking about nor do I care. I am not interested in any dialouge with you about anyhing.
Stop forcing yourself upon me.
No one except anti SR/GR crackpots are challenging any scientific astronomical observations.
In the case of the twins, each are in different FoRs depending on the gravitational potential in that frame, and each experience time passing at 1 second per second in there own FoRs.
Both twins see/observe 12 Earth orbits....the stay at home twin ages exactly the same [ 12 years] as he is in that same frame.
The travelling twin while seeing/observing that 12 Earth years in the other FoR, notices that in his frame, only 10 equivalent Earth years has passed.
The higher gravitational potential in his FoR has caused time to dilate both mechanically and biologically.
This is similar to the fast and slow clock and running analogy that RW tried to babysit you through, but which you stuffed up by contradicting yourself.
You know the sign of a good dependable human being chinglu? Someone who is not afraid to admit he is wrong in the face of irrefutable evidence/argument.
Our great scientific mind Albert Einstein was not backwards in admitting the greatest blunder of his life with his static Universe and CC when faced with Hubble's observations.
But with his theories of SR/GR he is absolutely correct and that is supported with evidence piling up since those heady days of 1905 and 1916.
And as I have pointed out a few times, you arguing the point here, is not going to change the mainstream general acceptance of SR/GR.
You are only doing the easy yards here, on a forum, posting incognito, being able to reply with any refutation you happen to feel like without any supporting evidence...Saying the accepted view is wrong and you are the only one that can see the light.
But in essence you do not change things one iota.
You have nothing going for you by continuing to push such crap.
You maybe a nice bloke otherwise, I don't know, but by continuing along this path, it shows you as someone who can best be described as weird.
You have been shown to be wrong, both here and elsewhere.
Be a man, and accept that fact.
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Chinglu earlier ..
I am not sure what to think about you observing 25 hb when I actually experienced 50.
I would say you are wrong.
Chinglu, You probably missed this in amongst all the other stuff. What is your response to this ?
I am not sure what to think about you observing 25 hb when I actually experienced 50.
I would say you are wrong.
Chinglu, You probably missed this in amongst all the other stuff. What is your response to this ?
I'm no medical person, but I see the heart beat analogy as not really valid. We all have our hearts beating at different rates but we still age the same. [as far as I know]
I think it is best sticking to the clocks and the hundred yards dash.
I am going to blow your little mind....
The traveling twin lived for 12 earth orbits but he only aged ten years. Here comes some really heavy arithmetic (get ready), in the traveling twins frame an earth orbit takes only 10 months not 12 months! Like OMG!!!
Where does this crazy idea come from, you ask? It is called relativity and the theory is about 100 years old - you should see if you can try and understand it. The theory has stood the test of time for all of those years. Sticking your fingers in your ears and covering your eyes will not make relativity go away. Embrace reality, your willful ignorance only makes you look pitiful and silly.
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Quote Originally Posted by origin View Post
Both twins lived for 12 earth orbits. The traveling twin aged 10 earth years. The traveling twin is 2 years younger than his twin. They both agree that there were 12 earth orbits. Both twins have been educated and agree that you do not understand relativity.
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Originally Posted by Russ_Watters View Post
Correct!
So you agree that I finished the race? Your watch doesn't say that I only finished half the race, it says I finished it in half the time?
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I think the above two observations/questions by origin and Russ Watters show how determined chinglu is to avoid answering directly all questions put to him.
This appears to be a familiar trait with most conspiracy nutters and pseudoscience pushers.
The ignorance of the fact that he either does not understand the concept of "Frames of References " or is just ignoring it because it invalidates his claims, is a trait exhibited by conspiracy nutters and their ilk.
Many of the original posters that have refuted chinglu's nonsense have now given him up as a lost cause.
I'm a little bit more stubborn then that, and so for the foreseeable future will keep trying to either expose his wilfulness in trolling and/or alleviate his ignorance.
Quote Originally Posted by origin View Post
Both twins lived for 12 earth orbits. The traveling twin aged 10 earth years. The traveling twin is 2 years younger than his twin. They both agree that there were 12 earth orbits. Both twins have been educated and agree that you do not understand relativity.
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Originally Posted by Russ_Watters View Post
Correct!
So you agree that I finished the race? Your watch doesn't say that I only finished half the race, it says I finished it in half the time?
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
I think the above two observations/questions by origin and Russ Watters show how determined chinglu is to avoid answering directly all questions put to him.
This appears to be a familiar trait with most conspiracy nutters and pseudoscience pushers.
The ignorance of the fact that he either does not understand the concept of "Frames of References " or is just ignoring it because it invalidates his claims, is a trait exhibited by conspiracy nutters and their ilk.
Many of the original posters that have refuted chinglu's nonsense have now given him up as a lost cause.
I'm a little bit more stubborn then that, and so for the foreseeable future will keep trying to either expose his wilfulness in trolling and/or alleviate his ignorance.
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Originally Posted by chinglu
The clock must math physical reality
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I presume you mean match instead of math?
In that case, NO, the clocks do not need to match physical reality unless that physical reality is in its [the clock's] own FoR.
Which then supports the fact that it cannot possibly be a faulty clock, because the process in question not only affects the mechanical movement of the clock, it also affects all other mechanical movements, and all biological timing processes experienced by any and all travelers within that particular FoR.
You would actually see that illustrated quite simply if you watched one of the u tube videos I supplied, instead of wilfully refusing to do so.
Originally Posted by chinglu
The clock must math physical reality
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
I presume you mean match instead of math?
In that case, NO, the clocks do not need to match physical reality unless that physical reality is in its [the clock's] own FoR.
Which then supports the fact that it cannot possibly be a faulty clock, because the process in question not only affects the mechanical movement of the clock, it also affects all other mechanical movements, and all biological timing processes experienced by any and all travelers within that particular FoR.
You would actually see that illustrated quite simply if you watched one of the u tube videos I supplied, instead of wilfully refusing to do so.
Here is one Chinglu.
Lets say you had a space ship that allowed you to instantly accelerate to 0.9999999c and you flew to colony on Alpha Centari. Lets further assume that it was decided in advance on what date you would leave earth and this info was communicated to Alpha Centari.
You would be on the ship for about 17 hours by your watch. You would probably watch a couple of movies and have Lunch, then dinner and go to sleep - just like a long airline flight. After seventeen hours you would land and the guy welcoming you on the ground would ask how your 4.4 year long flight was, because according to his watch (and calendar) you left earth 4.4 years ago.
Lets say you had a space ship that allowed you to instantly accelerate to 0.9999999c and you flew to colony on Alpha Centari. Lets further assume that it was decided in advance on what date you would leave earth and this info was communicated to Alpha Centari.
You would be on the ship for about 17 hours by your watch. You would probably watch a couple of movies and have Lunch, then dinner and go to sleep - just like a long airline flight. After seventeen hours you would land and the guy welcoming you on the ground would ask how your 4.4 year long flight was, because according to his watch (and calendar) you left earth 4.4 years ago.
I preceed now under the assumption that chinglu is not just being a troll and fishing for reactions, but is truly confused with the concept of time clocks and Earth's orbits.
Clocks do not measure time....Time is simply that which stops everything from happening together and has been shown in countless experiments to not be fixed, absolute and immovable as we once thought. Time along with space, depends on the presence of mass/energy density and as such has been formulated into a 4D picture of the Universe and the background against which the equations of SR/GR are calculated.
We use clocks as devices simply to regulate our lives, telling us not only when to get up, but when to eat, shit and be merry. They are so much a part of our lives that we rarely think about what clocks really do.
We program our clocks to coincide with events we see as regular, whether they are highly accurate atomic clocks or slightly less accurate quartz watches, electric alarm clocks or grandfather clocks with slowly swinging pendulums, all clocks have one thing in common - they consistently count precise units of time. The same units we use to regulate our lives and keep everything reasonably standard. So we divide astronomical events of the revolution of Earth, the orbit of the Moon, and the orbit of the earth, into seconds, minutes, and hours.
We change our clocks to suit our environment and our lives and call it daylight saving. In doing that, it doesn't for one instance change the orbit of the earth, and where and when the Sun rises.
We do it because it is more conveniant for our everyday lives.
Clocks are also affected as already mentioned by the gravitational potential of the FoR they are in, simply because space and time are not absolute.
Time has nothing to do with Earth orbits, other then that is the basic regulator we base its rate at in that same FoR.
Earth's position does not change with daylight saving, nor with what rate a clock maybe ticking in another FoR.
Clocks do not measure time....Time is simply that which stops everything from happening together and has been shown in countless experiments to not be fixed, absolute and immovable as we once thought. Time along with space, depends on the presence of mass/energy density and as such has been formulated into a 4D picture of the Universe and the background against which the equations of SR/GR are calculated.
We use clocks as devices simply to regulate our lives, telling us not only when to get up, but when to eat, shit and be merry. They are so much a part of our lives that we rarely think about what clocks really do.
We program our clocks to coincide with events we see as regular, whether they are highly accurate atomic clocks or slightly less accurate quartz watches, electric alarm clocks or grandfather clocks with slowly swinging pendulums, all clocks have one thing in common - they consistently count precise units of time. The same units we use to regulate our lives and keep everything reasonably standard. So we divide astronomical events of the revolution of Earth, the orbit of the Moon, and the orbit of the earth, into seconds, minutes, and hours.
We change our clocks to suit our environment and our lives and call it daylight saving. In doing that, it doesn't for one instance change the orbit of the earth, and where and when the Sun rises.
We do it because it is more conveniant for our everyday lives.
Clocks are also affected as already mentioned by the gravitational potential of the FoR they are in, simply because space and time are not absolute.
Time has nothing to do with Earth orbits, other then that is the basic regulator we base its rate at in that same FoR.
Earth's position does not change with daylight saving, nor with what rate a clock maybe ticking in another FoR.
A clock is a measurement device for the dimension of time. When I have a meeting I use the 4 dimension of space time to attend the meeting. The meeting will have an X, Y, Z, and time component. If I ignore any one of those 4 dimensions I could end up missing the meeting. We of course use the earth as a frame of reference for all 4 of the dimensions.
I am totally disinterested in what you think.
The simple point where RW and I were trying to get Chinglu to, was that different clock rates measure the same event with different results. We don't seem to be able to get past this, because of all the noise. Perhaps Chinglu is relying on all the noise as his escape hatch. If so, the noise is certainly serving that purpose.
Egggsaxtly why I posted what I did
.. No clock is absolute with Earth's orbit, or it's revolution, or the Moon's orbit about the Earth.RW, has simplified it quite nicely.....The heart beat analogy though, only adds confusion and gives chinglu a way out.
We live in hope he has seen the light.