Doesn't come a shade within fraud, but OK.
Gravity slows down time.
- Thread starter chinglu
- Start date
Doesn't come a shade within fraud, but OK.
What else do you see needing discussion BdS?
Let me reiterate, the video I listed is probably the best explanation of SR/GR that I have seen.
Sure russ.
If your clock says something so what.
GPS and everything on this planet synchronizes to the earth's motion.
This has been adopted as an absolute standard.
Please rephrase your questions into the the same absolute time standard a GPS.
Then I will answer.
Hi chinglu.
So we are agreed; the twins are the scientists/observers who INTERPRET the clock counts; while The clocks just count. If their internal processes CHANGE rate of ticking/counting, then that is all that the clocks do, give a different count to what would have been at starting state. Yes?
Just as the traveling twin's INTERNAL biology AGING PROCESS rate CHANGES from that which he started at, but his stay-put twin remains same as starting state. Yes?
Hence the clocks/age-processes will be DIFFERENT...NOT "WRONG" in either case. Just DIFFERENT. See?
The external astronomical earth-orbit dataset of 12 'years' is neither here nor there, since that hasn't changed for either of them insofar as what they "lived/witnessed" through as "externals" COMMON TO BOTH IRRESPECTIVE of what internal clock/biology is counting/aging internally to them.
Only YOU come along and 'connect' and 'claim' what it 'means' etc. Understand, mate?
And did you understand my "GR"-only example which had both in SAME "SR" all along BUT STILL HAD CLOCK/BIOLOGY DIFFERENCE 'count/age' when compared by science/observer to common external 'years' witnessed by both as 12 orbits? That should tell you what you want to know for BOTH GR-only and SR-only examples of this kind.
So, chinglu, YES, the two twins BOTH 'lived/witnessed" 12 earth orbits ETERNALLY, but INTERNALLY they and their respective clocks 'aged/counted' an INTERNAL PROCESS which represents an INTERNAL DIFFERENCE between them after the experiment which lasted 12 earth orbits as a common external referent for that experimental run duration.
Understand? NEITHER clock is "wrong". Just DIFFERENT. And the 12 years is an EXTERNAL referent, and NOT INTERNAL referents denoting INTERNAL biology/clock PROCESS age/counts. See?
Good luck with your other discussions, mate.
You keep trying to talk about some internal clock mechanism that is different from the absolute time standard of the earth's motion.
Can you explain your logic in term's of the absolute time standard of the earth's motion?
No, this is not correct and I have answered.
It depends on how the earth moved during the race. That is the correct answer. That will indicate the correct time.
You fail at defining, you fail at logic...
The Earth's motion is not an absolute time standard, so you proceed from an illogical premise.
The only absolute time standard is the second, the time it takes for light to travel 299,792,458 metres or 186,282. miles
Unless you are trolling, [which I'm 100% sure you are ] I would suggest you watch the following video simplistically narrated and illustrated, and debunk it for the forum.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ev9zrt__lec
Otherwise it remains obvious to all and sundry, who has failed dismally [You can check out a mirror for that]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ev9zrt__lec
Otherwise it remains obvious to all and sundry, who has failed dismally [You can check out a mirror for that]
OK, let's assume the earth's motion is not an absolute time standard.
That means different observers. after distance correction. disagree on the earth's position around the sun.
Can you explain this?
So, why does GPS adjust clocks to agree on the earth motion second?
I have no need to watch videos.
Anyway, can you prove the earth's motion in the solar system is not an absolute time standard?
Clock drift in normal clocks[edit]
Main article: Frequency drift
Normal clocks such as clocks at home and wristwatches usually drift compared to the actual time. This is why it is necessary to reset them occasionally. Clocks often drift differently depending on their quality, the exact power they get from the battery, the surrounding temperature and other environmental variables. Thus the same clock can have different clock drift rates at different occasions.
Mechanical watches drift much more than quartz ones, but they are designed to drift ahead rather than behind[citation needed], so that the watch gains time, making it easier to set the time to the second with the hack (stop mechanism) function.
More advanced clocks and old mechanical clocks often have some kind of speed trimmer where one can adjust the speed of the clock and thus reduce the clock drift. For instance, in pendulum clocks the clock drift can be manipulated by slightly changing the length of the pendulum.
Atomic clocks[edit]
Atomic clocks are very precise and have nearly no clock drift. The rotation of the Earth itself actually is less precise than modern atomic clocks used as time standards. Thus to keep the Coordinated Universal Time (UTC) in line with the Earth's rotation, a leap second is added to some years.
Relativity[edit]
As Einstein predicted, relativistic effects can also cause clock drift due to time dilation. This is because there is no fixed universal time, time being relative to the observer. Special relativity describes how two clocks held by people in different inertial frames (i.e. moving with respect to each other but not accelerating or decelerating) will each appear to tick more slowly to the other person.
In addition to this, general relativity gives us gravitational time dilation. Briefly, a clock in a stronger gravitational field (e.g. closer to a planet) will appear to tick more slowly. People holding these clocks would agree on which clock appeared to be going faster.
Note that it is time itself rather than the function of the clock which is affected. Both effects have been experimentally observed.
Time dilation is of practical importance. For instance, the clocks in GPS satellites experience this effect due to the reduced gravity they experience (making their clocks appear to run more quickly than those on Earth) and must therefore incorporate relativistically corrected calculations when reporting locations to users. If general relativity were not accounted for, a navigational fix based on the GPS satellites would be false after only 2 minutes, and errors in global positions would continue to accumulate at a rate of about 10 kilometers each day.[1]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clock_drift
Still not going to watch the video?
You are a piker and lack any intestinal fortitude.
How does this refute the absolute time standard of the earth's motion?
You would be correct if you can prove any observer in the solar system disagrees (considering time delay) with any other observers in the solar system.
I proved all observers in the solar system agree on the earth motion time standard.
Ugh. Why can't you just answer the question? We'll get into those other things (all still wrong, btw) after we first establish what time is and how it is measured. Are you afraid you will accidentally show that you really do understand the basics of time and contradict your mischaracterizations of how it works? I'm talking even before we get into time standards and absolute vs relative time; I first want to hear you say you recognize the basic concepts of what time is and how to use it.
See, you can't help yourself, can you ? You've gone down this path before and got nowhere. You keep repeating the same 'ol same 'ol same 'ol .., posting the same multiple posts, getting nowhere. This in no name calling now - it is an inescapable observation .. you're like a kid who is frighttened of losing his lollypop.
Chinglu was replying to ME. You didn't even give me the courtesy of responding to him. You spat yourself abroad his reply to ME, AGAIN, and now rather than dealing with him I gotta deal with you.
Yet all you've done is gone over, and over, and over, and over ....... the same stuff, quickly followed by your trite insults and name calling.
Nobody's interested in your links. If they were, they would have looked at and commented by now.
Why don't you take a moment to think about what I'm saying, above.
Do me a favour, will you ? I know this is a free forum, and anyone can post, etc, but do me a favour - stay OUT of my discussion with Chinglu, OK ? I'm asking you nicely.