Gravity Propulsion Drive

[Cheezle]

Atomic clocks, that use Caesium, emit EM radiation with a frequency of 9,192,631,770 cycles per second. That's just one frequency. AM waves include the whole frequency band. The whole frequency band establishes the flow of time for an inertial frame. That's the connection between atomic clocks, and the progression of time. At least that's the way I understand it.

Then, emissions of frequency shifting waves is intended to create a time dilation field. The frequency shift is 300 meters long (1microsecond), and then repeats, an acceleration field is supposed to form. It forms because frequency shifting produces a time dilation field. A time dilation field, in turn, produces an acceleration field.

But you have to understand that you are trying to convince me the space alien aether (SAE) exists. I know that atomic clocks exist. I know that physicists that work with atomic clocks are not concerned with SAE. There is already a theory that meets all their needs. So you need to tell me why the existence of atomic clocks should imply the existence of SAE. In other words: why should I believe that "AM waves include the whole frequency band. The whole frequency band establishes the flow of time for an inertial frame." Maybe I am just slow and missed the obvious connection. So far this all just looks like a supposition on your part that is not backed up by anything more than your belief.

As far as your frequency shifting acceleration beam goes, I think I understand why it can't work. I am not a scientist but I can google and came up with this. Causality in systems like you describe can evidently not look into the future and they can not remember the past. Systems evolve one state to the next. So if your 1us beam looks like f1.f2.f3.f4.f5.f1... you can only consider the transition between any 2 adjacent states. So your beam is useless. Once again I am not a scientist and so am pretty unsure of this. Perhaps someone else could comment.

 

[Mazulu]

But you have to understand that you are trying to convince me the space alien aether (SAE) exists. I know that atomic clocks exist. I know that physicists that work with atomic clocks are not concerned with SAE. There is already a theory that meets all their needs. So you need to tell me why the existence of atomic clocks should imply the existence of SAE. In other words: why should I believe that "AM waves include the whole frequency band. The whole frequency band establishes the flow of time for an inertial frame." Maybe I am just slow and missed the obvious connection. So far this all just looks like a supposition on your part that is not backed up by anything more than your belief.

AM waves have to include the whole EM spectrum because if they didn't include the whole spectrum, then light couldn't propagate at those frequencies not covered by AM waves. It's like having a light bulb at each frequency. No AM wave at frequency f means to light propagation at frequency f. Look at this picture of blackbody radiation. If the visible band of AM wave was absent, then the accelerating (oscillating) charges of the atoms couldn't radiate energy. Electromagnetism wouldn't work properly. This is one of those cases where you don't miss it until its not there.

If there was missing bandwidth in the infrared portion of the spectrum, then molecular bonds couldn't form.

As far as your frequency shifting acceleration beam goes, I think I understand why it can't work. I am not a scientist but I can google and came up with this. Causality in systems like you describe can evidently not look into the future and they can not remember the past. Systems evolve one state to the next. So if your 1us beam looks like f1.f2.f3.f4.f5.f1... you can only consider the transition between any 2 adjacent states. So your beam is useless. Once again I am not a scientist and so am pretty unsure of this. Perhaps someone else could comment.

Frequency shifting emissions have no power to violate causality, look into the future or travel into the past. They can never do this, partly because aether medium waves only exist in the present. Nothing exists in the past or in the future. What frequency shifting waves can do is excite acceleration fields that can be used for propulsion.

Te idea is that frequency shifting waves are part of the gravity portion of the space-time continuum. Emitting a synthesized frequency shift will (I hope) excite a frequency shifting aether wave. This will excite an acceleration field.

 

[Cheezle]

Well that is just silly. An undetectable all pervasive medium that can easily be transformed to bend space and time and provide huge accelerations to spacecraft and even make something undefined called hyperspace. (You sure don't know how to be taken seriously.) And yet it has never been detected. You even state that this medium is required for the existence of space and time. I have found your photon theory document online and it does not mention any aether so this is something you added later. Did the telepathic transmissions come in episodes like a TV show or something? The whole thing is just so hugely improbable that no one should ever take it seriously.

 

[Cheezle]

Continuing. If you had never brought up the aliens, telepathy and the gravity beam, your aether theory might even be a consideration. I am kind of neutral since it does not seem to be needed but as an undetectable enabling medium some may have liked it. However, as we both know, you require the gravity beam and aliens to support your story and dreams. You are basically saddled with this unbelievable part of an easy way to bend space and time with no energy. I actually see how the aether medium might work, but you screwed it all up with the wild stories.

 

[AlphaNumeric]

I given lots of evidence and justification. You ignore it.

No, you haven't. Your 'evidence and justification' amounts to either "God/aliens told me", which makes you sound insane, or you just say "See that phenomenon modern science can already model and explain without an aether? Well I claim it's an aether!".

You haven't provided any working model, any precise testable predictions, any formal derivation of conclusions from postulates. You haven't provided anything.

So I proposed aether medium waves that include the whole electromagnetic frequency spectrum. Every frequency in the spectrum can function as a clock.

Except the EM spectrum has infinitely many different frequencies, something you are unaware of and I've had to tell you previously. Furthermore there's no need to use multiple frequencies. And none of it points to an aether.

I went further. I said that aether medium waves, across the whole frequency spectrum, produce the flow of time.

Yes, you said. You asserted without evidence or justification beyond personal incredulity.

If this is not true, then what else is there to produce the flow of time?

How do you not see the problem in that sentence? Your entire argument is "I cannot imagine anything else!".

If we went back to 2000BC and asked the most educated person of the day to explain things in Nature they would be unable to imagine anything close to modern science, they would interpret things in terms of their (by our standards) profoundly ignorant and uninformed point of view. Would that make their claims everything is made of Air, Earth, Water and Fire valid? Would it make assertions the Earth is flat and covered in a dome, above which the Gods live valid? Of course not! Your inability to grasp or imagine alternatives doesn't make your one idea valid. This is why experiments and predictive models are important. It's easy to come up with something which sounds half plausible. I can, off the top of my head, knock out half a dozen superficially plausible explanations for pretty much any phenomenon you care to mention, full of big words and complicated concepts, but that isn't what makes them valid. What makes something viable science is being able to formalise it, use it to make precise statements about reality and be more than just the author's opinion.

If you got hit by a bus tomorrow no one could continue your 'work' because you haven't formalised anything, it's just your opinion. If Einstein had been hit by a bus the day after posting special relativity to a journal everyone could still continue his work because he formalised it clearly and carefully. Likewise for any other major model in physics.

But even that isn't enough. I can bang out half a dozen mathematical constructs which I can claim do something like meld gravity and electromagnetism. Lots of cotangent spaces and principle G-bundles, but that isn't enough. I have to justify why I used the axioms I did, how I arrived at those results, the implications they have for experiments (precisely).

So saying "What else could it be?" is not an argument. Firstly it's a logical fallacy, an argument from ignorance/personal incredulity. Secondly anyone can easily spew out an alternative if they are held to the same standards (or lack thereof) as your 'work'. And thirdly there are alternatives, that's what the mainstream models provide. We have exceptionally good models of light and nuclear processes. Quantum electrodynamics is, demonstrably, accurate to a level of parts per trillion, in all light related phenomena from the $$10^{-15}$$ metres scale up to interstellar scales. Anything which wishes to replace QED will need to show it can model ALL of those phenomena and either do it in a much simpler manner or be able to be applied to phenomena which QED cannot model. You haven't provided enough justification for people to think you're playing with a full deck, never mind replaced the most accurate and most tested physics model in the history of Man.

 

[Mazulu]

I'm not trying to come up with a new or better model. I'm trying to come up with a new capability. There is a difference. If you don't want to perform a frequency shifting experiment and test for the presence of an acceleration field, that's your business. In truth, if someone did perform the experiment, and it worked, then decades of experiments would have to be performed. You would need physicists to formalize a whole new set of experiments.

What you don't seem to understand is that the world doesn't give a crap about whether or not you can make a better model. They only care if you can manufacture a better product or a new and useful capability.

 

[Read-Only]

I'm not trying to come up with a new or better model. I'm trying to come up with a new capability. There is a difference. If you don't want to perform a frequency shifting experiment and test for the presence of an acceleration field, that's your business. In truth, if someone did perform the experiment, and it worked, then decades of experiments would have to be performed. You would need physicists to formalize a whole new set of experiments.

What you don't seem to understand is that the world doesn't give a crap about whether or not you can make a better model. They only care if you can manufacture a better product or a new and useful capability.

And what YOU fail to understand - due to your massive ignorance - is that you are on a dead-end road. Your idea is simply nonsense!

 

[Mazulu]

Except the EM spectrum has infinitely many different frequencies, something you are unaware of and I've had to tell you previously. Furthermore there's no need to use multiple frequencies. And none of it points to an aether.

Yes I am aware there are an infinite number of different frequencies.

Yes aether waves do have to support every frequency in the frequency band. Failure to do do will significantly disturb the laws of physics. Black body radiation wouldn't work properly if their were gaps in the frequency band.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molecular_vibration

If there were gaps in the frequency spectrum between 10^12 and 10^14Hz, most chemical bonds wouldn't be able to form. If you could build a device that could block those frequencies, it would be the equivalent of a disintegration weapon. I suggest that we not pursue that technology.

I can't derive equations that show you how the laws of physics depend upon the availability of the frequency spectrum. But as a thought experiment, I can show you how shutting off frequencies, by blocking the AM waves, can significantly disrupt the laws of physics.

You and your years of training in logical fallacies, and all that useless crap, are missing the common sense of simple things. If you could prevent the existence of protons or electrons, even neutrinos, maybe atoms couldn't form, but the rest of the laws of physics would continue just fine. But if you block a range of frequencies, the laws of physics are hampered significantly. Everything from EM light, to blackbody radiation to molecular bond frequencies to conservation of energy to proper emission of photons by accelerating charges are all adversely impacted.

How do you know if something is vitally important to the laws of physics? Answer: as a thought experiment, shut it off and see what happens. What happens if you shut off superstrings? Nobody knows. Maybe nothing? Do they even exist?

What if virtual photons can't form? Then Maxwell's equations fall apart. Electromagnetism goes away. The potential energy term of the Schrodinger equation goes away, so all particles start behaving like waves. But wait! If electromagnetism goes away, then so do fractional charges. So protons and neutrons can't form.

But what if you shut off all EM waves? Photons and virtual photons go away. Electromagnetism goes away. What about leptons? Neutrinoes? What happens to them? There is still issue like:
1. what is time?
2. how does nature measure distance in space, in the vacuum?
If all EM waves are shut off, will time and distance still work?

 

[Cheezle]

If there were gaps in the frequency spectrum between 10^12 and 10^14Hz, most chemical bonds wouldn't be able to form. If you could build a device that could block those frequencies, it would be the equivalent of a disintegration weapon. I suggest that we not pursue that technology.

This is another hole in your story. These super intelligent super peaceful space aliens who fly their saucers over nuclear missile bases and deactivate the warheads (you claim) would surely know that the gravity beam and aether technology in general can be used as weapons. Extremely powerful weapons. Surely the space aliens would know that giving us this technology would be like handing some dynamite and matches to a six year old. Actually it is way worse than that. And you "suggest we don't pursue that." Fat chance of that.

So this leaves us with a number of scenarios. One is that the space aliens are not really as bright as you claim they are. Or they are extremely naive. Or they want us to destroy ourselves. There must be a number of civilizations out there in the galaxy that have developed weapons from this and used them to fight wars and kill billions or trillions of other space aliens. You as a ufo enthusiast must "know" that we have shot down several space alien craft and every time we detect them we scramble fighter jets to intercept. So there is no way the space alien story happened. It does not add up. Why would space aliens be so stupid?

And if this technology might work then you have already released it out on the web. The cat is out of the bag. Just having mentioned weapons has probably triggered some government monitor (ours or someone else's) to read this and it has been flagged for evaluation. Perhaps they will take it serious. Its a long shot but possible. They might spend some time investigating your gravity beam device and if it should work then you can bet they will immediately start development of space alien style saucers and definitely weapons. Our saucers will be able to hover over Russian, Chinese, North Korean, etc nuclear weapons facilities and disable them. Or theirs ours. This will remove the nuclear standoff and wars could start.

Heck the government might already dispatched a squad of SEALS to take you into custody or kill you. Foreign powers might find it necessary to get capture or get rid of you.

So there we have it. Stupid space aliens give you, a lowly factory worker unimaginable powerful weapons technology which will probably doom the entire planet .... OR it is just your delusional fantasy. Honestly, which is more likely. oke:

 

[Mazulu]

This is another hole in your story. These super intelligent super peaceful space aliens who fly their saucers over nuclear missile bases and deactivate the warheads (you claim) would surely know that the gravity beam and aether technology in general can be used as weapons. Extremely powerful weapons. Surely the space aliens would know that giving us this technology would be like handing some dynamite and matches to a six year old. Actually it is way worse than that. And you "suggest we don't pursue that." Fat chance of that.

So this leaves us with a number of scenarios. One is that the space aliens are not really as bright as you claim they are. Or they are extremely naive. Or they want us to destroy ourselves.

Well look at the facts. I posited a new and common sense approach to physics without mathematical structure, without evidence, and the scientific community dismissed my claims. They don't have data to contradict my claim. They dismissed it on the grounds that I told them it came from aliens. So your scenario of aliens giving six year old's dynamite/matches is false.

There must be a number of civilizations out there in the galaxy that have developed weapons from this and used them to fight wars and kill billions or trillions of other space aliens. You as a ufo enthusiast must "know" that we have shot down several space alien craft and every time we detect them we scramble fighter jets to intercept. So there is no way the space alien story happened. It does not add up. Why would space aliens be so stupid?

From what I understand, hostile warlike alien races are an extreme minority. Generally everybody gets along. Mostly there are very peaceful and spiritual alien races. There is unity under a banner of peaceful coexistence.

And if this technology might work then you have already released it out on the web. The cat is out of the bag. Just having mentioned weapons has probably triggered some government monitor (ours or someone else's) to read this and it has been flagged for evaluation. Perhaps they will take it serious. Its a long shot but possible. They might spend some time investigating your gravity beam device and if it should work then you can bet they will immediately start development of space alien style saucers and definitely weapons. Our saucers will be able to hover over Russian, Chinese, North Korean, etc nuclear weapons facilities and disable them. Or theirs ours. This will remove the nuclear standoff and wars could start.

Heck the government might already dispatched a squad of SEALS to take you into custody or kill you. Foreign powers might find it necessary to get capture or get rid of you.

So there we have it. Stupid space aliens give you, a lowly factory worker unimaginable powerful weapons technology which will probably doom the entire planet .... OR it is just your delusional fantasy. Honestly, which is more likely. oke:

Honestly, without proof or physics equations, I will be ignored and written off as crazy. Now if I had this and an amplifier, I might be able to get some proof. You see, proof of concept is easily within the grasp of the physics community. But there are degrees of enlightenment that have to be attained. The physics community is, on average, very unenlightened. Therefore, it would be impossible for them to perform this experiment because they are not enlightened or spiritual in any way.:shrug:

 

[Cheezle]

Mazulu. So you are telling me that the space aliens view humanity as a peaceful race that will not use their aether technology for evil?

BTW, next time you are in contact, tell them I have this bridge I would like to sell. I can make them a good deal on it. I do take gold bullion, precious gems, or even used saucer in payment.

 

[AlexG]

Well look at the facts. I posited a new and common sense approach to physics without mathematical structure, without evidence, and the scientific community dismissed my claims.

They were dismissed because they have no mathematical structure, there is no evidence, it contradicts all known physics.

The 'fact' that you claim Aliens gave you this technology is just icing on the cake.

Find a competent mental health specialist and get help.

 

[Mazulu]

Mazulu. So you are telling me that the space aliens view humanity as a peaceful race that will not use their aether technology for evil?

No, they view us with compassion. It was me who asked them for the information.

BTW, next time you are in contact, tell them I have this bridge I would like to sell. I can make them a good deal on it. I do take gold bullion, precious gems, or even used saucer in payment.

Go find an open field where a saucer can land. Wait until it's the dead of night. Then yell your offer into the sky. See what happens.

 

[Mazulu]

They were dismissed because they have no mathematical structure,

Yes.

there is no evidence,

Because no experiments have been performed.

it contradicts all known physics.

No. That it just your ignorance. You would deny the existence of rain while standing in a hurricane. In your defense, how could you know that rain, or anything else, existed when you have your head so far up your ...

The 'fact' that you claim Aliens gave you this technology is just icing on the cake. Find a competent mental health specialist and get help.

Find a competent proctologist

 

[AlphaNumeric]

In truth, if someone did perform the experiment, and it worked, then decades of experiments would have to be performed. You would need physicists to formalize a whole new set of experiments.

As I said, even if your 'prediction' were confirmed it wouldn't mean your explanation is the correct one. Partly because you cannot predict the size of the effect, much like Newton can predict precession but not the right amount.

What you don't seem to understand is that the world doesn't give a crap about whether or not you can make a better model. They only care if you can manufacture a better product or a new and useful capability.

But you cannot make a better product if you don't know the principles by which the components work. Without a good quantitative grasp of subatomic processes we couldn't manufacture computer chips. Without a good quantitative grasp of gravity we couldn't manufacture GPS systems. Without a good quantitative grasp of gravity and basic mechanics we couldn't build rockets as we'd not know how much fuel is needed.

Technology is based on more than "This effect exists", it requires precise modelling of the effect. Since you're claiming an effect no mainstream model claims if it exists there's no model for it and thus it cannot be incorporated into technological products. Science is more than "Throw a ball up and it comes down", it's about where and when it comes down, how high it got, the speed it moves through it's trajectory etc.

Besides, I don't think you're really in a position to be telling anyone the role physics takes in the real world. I'm not even sure you're fully attached to the real world.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molecular_vibration

If there were gaps in the frequency spectrum between 10^12 and 10^14Hz, most chemical bonds wouldn't be able to form.

Speaking as someone currently working on the quantum mechanics of molecules I'm more than a little aware of how it works. The problem is I think you aren't. Sorry, I know you aren't.

If you could build a device that could block those frequencies, it would be the equivalent of a disintegration weapon. I suggest that we not pursue that technology.

And if we had a device which turned water into ice cream we could destroy the environment.

I can't derive equations that show you how the laws of physics depend upon the availability of the frequency spectrum. But as a thought experiment, I can show you how shutting off frequencies, by blocking the AM waves, can significantly disrupt the laws of physics.

Except you aren't doing a thought experiment, you're asserting something about the real world. A thought experiment only makes sense if you're either using demonstrated facts about the real world (and aether isn't one) or you're doing a thought experiment about what a particular model says. You don't have a model, thus you're not doing a proper thought experiment. You're just asserting opinion.

You and your years of training in logical fallacies

I've never been 'trained' in logical fallacies. At no point in my uni education did I take a course in logic. I have taken a 12 hour (2 hours a week for 6 weeks) adult learning course in philosophy but that didn't cover them either. I learnt to identify logical fallacies by having a rational mind. Plus I'm an atheist and wacko religious people wheel out more logical fallacies than anyone else.

and all that useless crap,

Yes, all that useless crap like the underlying models used to design and manufacture the computer you're looking at, the models used to design the fibre optics and satellite systems through which we're currently communicating. The models used to develop non-invasive medical scanning technologies which save lives.

Anyone in the Western World who views the stuff covered in university maths and physics courses as 'useless crap' is just plain ridiculous (ie deserving of ridicule) because the Western World is a testament to precisely those things.

are missing the common sense of simple things.

No, I'm just able to see beyond the narrow confined of my every day experience, while you are not. I've already given an example of how your own believes contradict your common sense. I've proven your approach to things is flawed. You have refused to address that for many many pages now. Do you think no one else notices it? Do you think if you just don't reply that everyone will forget your own common sense contradicts your beliefs?

If you could prevent the existence of protons or electrons, even neutrinos, maybe atoms couldn't form, but the rest of the laws of physics would continue just fine.

If ifs and buts were candy and nuts....

But if you block a range of frequencies, the laws of physics are hampered significantly. Everything from EM light, to blackbody radiation to molecular bond frequencies to conservation of energy to proper emission of photons by accelerating charges are all adversely impacted.

Yes, changing the laws of physics will change Nature, which runs on the laws of physics. Got any other astoundingly insightful tautologies you want to throw at me?

hat if virtual photons can't form? Then Maxwell's equations fall apart.

Maxwell's original work had nothing to do with virtual photons. Maxwell's equations do not necessarily require an underlying quantum world to be valid. It just happens that when you use a few basic quantum field theoretic principles you can derive Maxwell's equations from a more fundamental view point.

Electromagnetism goes away. The potential energy term of the Schrodinger equation goes away, so all particles start behaving like waves. But wait! If electromagnetism goes away, then so do fractional charges. So protons and neutrons can't form.

Turning off the electromagnetic charges of all particles wouldn't make neutrons and protons fell apart. They are bound by the strong nuclear force via gluons, not photons. You have also just shown that you don't understand what charge even means. Turning off somethings charge, in a thought experiment, doesn't make it cease to exist. In fact that particular thought experiment is easy to do in the Standard Model. Write down the SM Lagrangian, including all couplings, and then just turn off the EM coupling terms. For the QED Lagrangian this would give a free theory but in the full SM it doesn't because there's other gauge fields. Do you think the only potential the Schrodinger equation can have is electromagnetic? Hardly!

Yet another example of how your logic and reasoning is completely destroyed by your ignorance.

But what if you shut off all EM waves? Photons and virtual photons go away. Electromagnetism goes away. What about leptons? Neutrinoes? What happens to them?

As I said, you can explore this particular concept in the SM by doing precisely that. A great many physicists constructed many similar Lagrangians, with various new particle fields and couplings, to that they could predict what such a set of particles would do in the LHC. As data from the LHC comes in some of the models are falsified. That's the bread and butter of many particle physicists' research!

Once again you've shown you have no idea what the science actually involves. You aren't asking novel questions or challenging people. The best you can manage is ask some question you think it rhetorical and unanswerable without invoking an aether when in fact it's something anyone learning QFT in university will be able to answer without invoking an aether.

You are not as insightful as you think. Not by a long long way.

There is still issue like:
1. what is time?
2. how does nature measure distance in space, in the vacuum?
If all EM waves are shut off, will time and distance still work?

Nature doesn't 'measure' things, you're anthropomorphising it. When you jump in the air do you have to measure the force your legs apply to the ground and solve some equations? Of course not, just as in Nature things just do what they do, they don't 'measure' things. As for whether space-time will still work, the space-time in mainstream models is not contingent on the fields without it. GR can describe space-time without having to assume there's something in it.

If you had bothered to learn something about what science says you'd not be making an arse of yourself by asking such questions as if they are not considered by mainstream science or are somehow deeply insightful. They aren't.

Well look at the facts. I posited a new and common sense approach to physics without mathematical structure, without evidence, and the scientific community dismissed my claims. They don't have data to contradict my claim. They dismissed it on the grounds that I told them it came from aliens. So your scenario of aliens giving six year old's dynamite/matches is false.

Now you're just being a flat out liar. I explained a page or two ago that it isn't because you say "Aliens told me" but because there's nothing scientific about your claims. You even quoted me saying it so you cannot claim you haven't read it.

You're now just sinking to outright lying, plain and simple. Well done, you're not just a hack, you're a demonstrable liar.

 

[Mazulu]

As I said, even if your 'prediction' were confirmed it wouldn't mean your explanation is the correct one. Partly because you cannot predict the size of the effect, much like Newton can predict precession but not the right amount.

But you cannot make a better product if you don't know the principles by which the components work. Without a good quantitative grasp of subatomic processes we couldn't manufacture computer chips. Without a good quantitative grasp of gravity we couldn't manufacture GPS systems. Without a good quantitative grasp of gravity and basic mechanics we couldn't build rockets as we'd not know how much fuel is needed.

Technology is based on more than "This effect exists", it requires precise modelling of the effect. Since you're claiming an effect no mainstream model claims if it exists there's no model for it and thus it cannot be incorporated into technological products. Science is more than "Throw a ball up and it comes down", it's about where and when it comes down, how high it got, the speed it moves through it's trajectory etc.

Besides, I don't think you're really in a position to be telling anyone the role physics takes in the real world. I'm not even sure you're fully attached to the real world.

Speaking as someone currently working on the quantum mechanics of molecules I'm more than a little aware of how it works. The problem is I think you aren't. Sorry, I know you aren't.

And if we had a device which turned water into ice cream we could destroy the environment.

Except you aren't doing a thought experiment, you're asserting something about the real world. A thought experiment only makes sense if you're either using demonstrated facts about the real world (and aether isn't one) or you're doing a thought experiment about what a particular model says. You don't have a model, thus you're not doing a proper thought experiment. You're just asserting opinion.

I've never been 'trained' in logical fallacies. At no point in my uni education did I take a course in logic. I have taken a 12 hour (2 hours a week for 6 weeks) adult learning course in philosophy but that didn't cover them either. I learnt to identify logical fallacies by having a rational mind. Plus I'm an atheist and wacko religious people wheel out more logical fallacies than anyone else.

Yes, all that useless crap like the underlying models used to design and manufacture the computer you're looking at, the models used to design the fibre optics and satellite systems through which we're currently communicating. The models used to develop non-invasive medical scanning technologies which save lives.

Anyone in the Western World who views the stuff covered in university maths and physics courses as 'useless crap' is just plain ridiculous (ie deserving of ridicule) because the Western World is a testament to precisely those things.

No, I'm just able to see beyond the narrow confined of my every day experience, while you are not. I've already given an example of how your own believes contradict your common sense. I've proven your approach to things is flawed. You have refused to address that for many many pages now. Do you think no one else notices it? Do you think if you just don't reply that everyone will forget your own common sense contradicts your beliefs?

If ifs and buts were candy and nuts....

Yes, changing the laws of physics will change Nature, which runs on the laws of physics. Got any other astoundingly insightful tautologies you want to throw at me?

Maxwell's original work had nothing to do with virtual photons. Maxwell's equations do not necessarily require an underlying quantum world to be valid. It just happens that when you use a few basic quantum field theoretic principles you can derive Maxwell's equations from a more fundamental view point.

Turning off the electromagnetic charges of all particles wouldn't make neutrons and protons fell apart. They are bound by the strong nuclear force via gluons, not photons. You have also just shown that you don't understand what charge even means. Turning off somethings charge, in a thought experiment, doesn't make it cease to exist. In fact that particular thought experiment is easy to do in the Standard Model. Write down the SM Lagrangian, including all couplings, and then just turn off the EM coupling terms. For the QED Lagrangian this would give a free theory but in the full SM it doesn't because there's other gauge fields. Do you think the only potential the Schrodinger equation can have is electromagnetic? Hardly!

Yet another example of how your logic and reasoning is completely destroyed by your ignorance.

As I said, you can explore this particular concept in the SM by doing precisely that. A great many physicists constructed many similar Lagrangians, with various new particle fields and couplings, to that they could predict what such a set of particles would do in the LHC. As data from the LHC comes in some of the models are falsified. That's the bread and butter of many particle physicists' research!

Once again you've shown you have no idea what the science actually involves. You aren't asking novel questions or challenging people. The best you can manage is ask some question you think it rhetorical and unanswerable without invoking an aether when in fact it's something anyone learning QFT in university will be able to answer without invoking an aether.

You are not as insightful as you think. Not by a long long way.

Nature doesn't 'measure' things, you're anthropomorphising it. When you jump in the air do you have to measure the force your legs apply to the ground and solve some equations? Of course not, just as in Nature things just do what they do, they don't 'measure' things. As for whether space-time will still work, the space-time in mainstream models is not contingent on the fields without it. GR can describe space-time without having to assume there's something in it.

If you had bothered to learn something about what science says you'd not be making an arse of yourself by asking such questions as if they are not considered by mainstream science or are somehow deeply insightful. They aren't.

Now you're just being a flat out liar. I explained a page or two ago that it isn't because you say "Aliens told me" but because there's nothing scientific about your claims. You even quoted me saying it so you cannot claim you haven't read it.

You're now just sinking to outright lying, plain and simple. Well done, you're not just a hack, you're a demonstrable liar.

Your responses deserve more attention, but I gotta go. I will say this: color charges (fractional charges) are still electric in nature. Since electric (and magnetic) fields use virtual photons as their carriers, then the absence of virtual photons will make all electric/magnetic fields vanish, including fractional charges.

 

[Cheezle]

Honestly, without proof or physics equations, I will be ignored and written off as crazy. Now if I had this and an amplifier, I might be able to get some proof. You see, proof of concept is easily within the grasp of the physics community. But there are degrees of enlightenment that have to be attained. The physics community is, on average, very unenlightened. Therefore, it would be impossible for them to perform this experiment because they are not enlightened or spiritual in any way.:shrug:

If that is all you need and you really are an electronics technician with a physics degree to boot, then do it. That generator is a poor choice for your purpose. Too expensive (though you can rent them or buy used) and it does not seem to do what you want. If your beam is only 1 us long and you need say 10 pulses to form that beam, then that is well within your ability to construct at home very cheaply. If you can't do it then hire a high school nerd to do it for you. I have seen people build some pretty amazing things in their garage out of junk. What is your excuse?

 

[AlphaNumeric]

I will say this: color charges (fractional charges) are still electric in nature.

And once again you show you haven't even bothered to find out what the actual science is. This stuff is high school level!

Quarks have 3 types of charge, electromagnetic, weak and strong, which means they interact with photons, weak bosons and gluons respectively. Turning off one type of charge means the particles don't interact with the corresponding type of particle. For example, electrons have both electromagnetic and weak charge but no strong charge so they interact with photons and weak bosons but not gluons. Neutrinos have only weak charge so they interact only with weak bosons, not photons or gluons.

If we view the electron as having 1 unit of electromagnetic charge than the quarks have either $$\pm \frac{1}{3}$$ or $$\pm \frac{2}{3}$$ units of electromagnetic charge. Their strong charge, otherwise known as colour, is an entirely separate thing.

The manner in which the strong force behaves and the implications it has for particles in regards to charges, wavefunctions and quantum states means it isn't just some convoluted form of electromagnetic charge. Gluons interact with each other, photons don't interact with each other. Strong charge is confined, electromagnetic is not. There's other reasons but they're technical and I'm sure beyond your grasp.

The fact you don't know the fractional charges of quarks is independent and a different effect from their colour shows how full of holes your knowledge is.

No doubt you'll come back with more assertions about how the strong force is really electromagnetic, completely failing to consider the half century of experimental data we have which says otherwise and which you're completely unable to address.

Since electric (and magnetic) fields use virtual photons as their carriers, then the absence of virtual photons will make all electric/magnetic fields vanish, including fractional charges.

You obviously don't know what role virtual particles play either. But then if you don't know stuff kids aged 16 or 17 learn in school it's not surprising you don't know stuff taught to 4th years or beyond at university.

 

[Read-Only]

This nut lost his amusement factor long ago. So isn't it time to lock this silly thread and send him packing?? :bugeye:

 

[sigurdV]

This nut lost his amusement factor long ago. So isn't it time to lock this silly thread and send him packing?? :bugeye:

Hey! Why stop? Its fun to read your post!