Gospel of Barnabas proves modern Christianity Wrong

[SpyMoose]

The Gospel of Barnabas is a medieval forgery.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isnt the Bible a medieval forgery?

 

[okinrus]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isnt the Bible a medieval forgery?

No, there are manuscripts(besides the other written evidence given by the Church Father's) that predate the middle ages.

no it will come to the conclusion of a few verse that seem like contradictions. the conlcusion would be the same verses that all the missionries use over time and time again. and none of them are actually contradictions they are things misunderstod by people. and they all have the same answer but the missionaries use them again and again.

Missionaries aguing using the Qur'an? There should be sufficient chronological errors, such as the Jubilee and the wine barrels, not to believe it.

 

[Leo Volont]

Barnabus was Paul's Sponsor into the Church. Barnabus was in effect vouching for Paul. Soon after Barnabus and Paul were given the Gentile Franchise Letter of Acts 15, Paul picked a fight with Barnabus and left him so that he could have the entire Gentile operation to himself.

Okay, if Barnabus is such a lousy judge of character -- which is obvious by even the most cursory reading of the Book of Acts, then why would anybody care what he would write in an epistle or gospel. What would it be?... the morons perspective on the Teaching of Christ.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isnt the Bible a medieval forgery?

*************
M*W: Consider yourself corrected, SpyMoose. The whole damn thing is a forgery!

 

[Leo Volont]

*************
M*W: Consider yourself corrected, SpyMoose. The whole damn thing is a forgery!

No. You can't entirely dismiss all of the critical scholarship which in some areas has arrived at a consensus on what is genuine and what has been compromised.

And even regarding forgeries, you need to wonder whether they are a good facsimile of what they pretend to be representing. If they present the actual teaching of one who has died, and the only fault is that they took liberties in signing a name, then, really, so what?

It is like the Assembly Line Books that come from some of today's authors. Everyone knows that no author really writes so much -- not while keeping up with the cocktail parties, the poker games, the drunken carousing and all else that goes with being a successful author. They keep literary sweat shops where graduates from distinguished Creative Writing Departments write to established formula. The author comes by once a week to sign his name before shipping the new Master Pieces off to the Publisher. But we would not call such things forgeries. Now, just as then, writing was an industry and it has its internal conventions which us lay people find it difficult to understand. But if they themselves do not consider such funny business as 'forgery' then why should we?

 

[Truth51]

The Gospel of Barnabas has proven the modern Christianity wrong. Jesus claims that he is not the Son of God, nor any God. Jesus says he is not the Messiah. Jesus claims that after he depart (die), people will claim him as the Son of God. Can anyone defend the Bible as being the word of God?

The Gospel of Barnabas is, excuse my french, complete bullshit.

First off, to rely on one thing as evidence to condemn on such a large scale as to disprove a religion is not a very good way at all to disprove anything at all, really. You cannot rely on one source and base all of your conclusions on it. If that were the case, our justice system could not be called a justice system.

Now about this "Gospel", there is no evidence whatsoever that it was written by an eyewitness, or based on an eyewitness account, of Jesus and His teachings. These "Gospels" like Barnabas, Peter, Mary, and Thomas are not written by these people themselves; if they were, they would each be just like Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. Most likely, they were created as anti-Christian propaganda or written by those who didn't fully understand what Jesus was talking about.

I would defend the Bible with my life. If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to ask.

-Kevin

 

[Leo Volont]

Most likely, they were created as anti-Christian propaganda or written by those who didn't fully understand what Jesus was talking about.

-Kevin

When has the Church ever cared about what Christ said about anything? The Sermon of the Mount was about strict moral accountability, but Christianity's core Doctrines are from Paul and emphasize Salvation and Forgiveness -- a Spiritual Free Ride.

Christ said that there would be his Narrow Path and the Wide Way that would lead to Destruction. Pauline Christianity became the Wide Way. The Narrow Way does not have much of an Organization.

 

[WildBlueYonder]

Many, if not all were translations into Coptic from earlier Greek manuscripts

& your proof would be?

You have very little understanding of gnosticism

so what did he leave out?
gnosis=wisdom, that they believed in secret knowedge, that only devotees would find out after they had reached the appropriate level; sort of like mormons, masons, druze, scientology, etc...

see below:

http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/nhl.html
The Nag Hammadi Library, a collection of thirteen ancient codices containing over fifty texts, was discovered in upper Egypt in 1945.

http://www.ourladyswarriors.org/dissent/defgnost.htm
The doctrine of salvation by knowledge. This definition, based on the etymology of the word (gnosis "knowledge", gnostikos, "good at knowing"), is correct as far as it goes, but it gives only one, though perhaps the predominant, characteristic of Gnostic systems of thought. Whereas Judaism and Christianity, and almost all pagan systems, hold that the soul attains its proper end by obedience of mind and will to the Supreme Power, i.e. by faith and works, it is markedly peculiar to Gnosticism that it places the salvation of the soul merely in the possession of a quasi-intuitive knowledge of the mysteries of the universe and of magic formulae indicative of that knowledge.

The Nag Hammadi collection includes non-gnostic texts as well

could you please name the non-gnostic texts from the list in the following link?
http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/nhl.html

they all walk, look, quack like gnostics, must be gnostics!

 

[WildBlueYonder]

The Gospel of Barnabas has proven the modern Christianity wrong.
Can anyone defend the Bible as being the word of God?

funny how you, a muslim, wants to trash Christianity with an obvious forgery (GoB),

but what you really miss is the lack of evidence for pre-islamic islam, why is there no evidence for the worship of a non-pagan allah, before Mohammad cleaned up allah's act?

listen, if allah had taught islam to Abraham, Moses, David, & Jesus, why is there no early manuscripts of the quran, say from 100AD?
if christianity & judaism had all these false off-shoots, like gnosticism, that survived long enough to write down their thoughts, why didn't pre-islamic islam?

muslims say that Abraham was a muslim, so why didn't he know allah? why are there no manuscripts with Abraham praising allah of mecca?
oh, muslims would say, "all those corrupt Christians, they destroyed them".
so, answer this, how were they so efficient against 'true islam', but let the Nag Hammadi library of 'true Christianity' survive?

Oh, & muslims burn books too, see below:

http://www.mediahistory.umn.edu/indextext/Alexandria.html
Early in the year A. D. 642, Alexandria surrendered to Amrou, the Islamic general leading the armies of Omar, Caliph of Baghdad. Long one of the most important cities of the ancient world and capital of Byzantine Egypt, Alexandria surrendered only after a long siege and attempts to rescue the city by the Byzantines. On the orders of Omar, Caliph of Baghdad, the entire collection of books (except for the works of Aristotle) stored at the Library of Alexandria were removed and used as fuel to heat water for the city's public baths.

This is not the first time the library was damaged or destroyed. Originally built to house the massive collection of books accumulated by the Ptolemaic rulers of Egypt, the library had been devastated by fire several times.

why are all the pre-cursors to islam all pagan or heretical christians? why are the early sources of islam not islamic?

Mohammad knew Ebonite Christians, Sabatean pagans, & Seekers,
probably Nestorian Christians & Jews too

archeology will be the new enemy of islam, it will tear it to shreds, islam can not survive a close examination of the source materials, for it will be found out as a fraud, a mish-mash of ideas, thrown together to make a new, previously unknown religion.

listen, if Judaism or Christianity had come against early islam in say 1000 BC or 100AD, there would be dialogs, discussions, arguments against it. John wrote against the Gnostics, Jews wrote against the worship of baal, yet silence against islam until 632AD or so, why would that be? could it be, that islam was not invented until 622AD?

if that were not true, show the evidence of it; where is the 'quran of Father Abraham'? or the 'quran of King David'? or the 'quran of Jesus Messiah'? or their prayers or poems to allah? they are MIA (missing in action)

also names, if allah was the god of the prophets, why did his name not appear on their's?
why isn't Jesus named abdullah? or David called Duadullah? or Moses Musullah? or Abraham, Abramullah? if they knew allah as their god, why didn't they bring glory to him in their names? why did only arabs use "ullah" for names, they being the only ones bringing glory to this meccan god? could it be, that allah was the god of the meccans? unknown to all the others until islam came with the sword?

islam is a fraud
I rest my case

 

[786]

funny how you, a muslim, wants to trash Christianity with an obvious forgery (GoB),

but what you really miss is the lack of evidence for pre-islamic islam, why is there no evidence for the worship of a non-pagan allah, before Mohammad cleaned up allah's act?

listen, if allah had taught islam to Abraham, Moses, David, & Jesus, why is there no early manuscripts of the quran, say from 100AD?
if christianity & judaism had all these false off-shoots, like gnosticism, that survived long enough to write down their thoughts, why didn't pre-islamic islam?

muslims say that Abraham was a muslim, so why didn't he know allah? why are there no manuscripts with Abraham praising allah of mecca?
oh, muslims would say, "all those corrupt Christians, they destroyed them".
so, answer this, how were they so efficient against 'true islam', but let the Nag Hammadi library of 'true Christianity' survive?

Oh, & muslims burn books too, see below:


why are all the pre-cursors to islam all pagan or heretical christians? why are the early sources of islam not islamic?

Mohammad knew Ebonite Christians, Sabatean pagans, & Seekers,
probably Nestorian Christians & Jews too

archeology will be the new enemy of islam, it will tear it to shreds, islam can not survive a close examination of the source materials, for it will be found out as a fraud, a mish-mash of ideas, thrown together to make a new, previously unknown religion.

listen, if Judaism or Christianity had come against early islam in say 1000 BC or 100AD, there would be dialogs, discussions, arguments against it. John wrote against the Gnostics, Jews wrote against the worship of baal, yet silence against islam until 632AD or so, why would that be? could it be, that islam was not invented until 622AD?

if that were not true, show the evidence of it; where is the 'quran of Father Abraham'? or the 'quran of King David'? or the 'quran of Jesus Messiah'? or their prayers or poems to allah? they are MIA (missing in action)

also names, if allah was the god of the prophets, why did his name not appear on their's?
why isn't Jesus named abdullah? or David called Duadullah? or Moses Musullah? or Abraham, Abramullah? if they knew allah as their god, why didn't they bring glory to him in their names? why did only arabs use "ullah" for names, they being the only ones bringing glory to this meccan god? could it be, that allah was the god of the meccans? unknown to all the others until islam came with the sword?

islam is a fraud
I rest my case

First about naming oneself with the ending of "ullah". You have to be kidding me. Why don't you name all Christians like Paul to Paulwah..... why wasn't Moses's name Moseswah. Stop being stupid, really now.

Now for why aren't there Quran manuscripts in the old times if Islam was in the beginning. Dude Quran is the continuation, and restoration of the previous message.

And as for Allah as the meccan God. My friend then ask all your Bible scholars in Arabic to NOT use Allah in their Bibles. And oh yeah that moon god stuff is so bs. Allah may have been among the many gods worshipped by the Arabs it doesn't mean that it is the wrong God.

It's like the Jews made the calf when Moses went on the Mountain. They believed in Yahweh and also the calf. That makes Yahweh a pagan god just like you claim about Allah.

Get this simple concept IN YOUR MIND. Later on people can begin adding gods into their religion as did the Jews and still be worshipping the ORIGINAL TRUE GOD. Same as the Jews did. Arabs are no different.

If you can't understand this simple concept. Then you are also following a pagan God aswell.

Peace be unto you

 

[WildBlueYonder]

First about naming oneself with the ending of "ullah". You have to be kidding me. Why don't you name all Christians like Paul to Paulwah..... why wasn't Moses's name Moseswah. Stop being stupid, really now.

I hate to bring out your monumental stupity in public, so sorry, but here goes:

1) if allah was the god that Abraham, Moses or Jesus worshipped, they would have named their children after that god, as pre-muslim arabs did, like Mohammad's father "Abdullah", or as muslims did after they converted to islam, why are the jewish prophets named for "YHWH", not for allah? like Isaiah, Jeremiah, "iah" is short for "Yah", or as in Jesus's name, it has the short "Ye" in Y'shua, meaning " "YHWH" saves", his name was not "alla-shua", since allah can not save even himself
2) why is allah's name never mentioned in the Bible, no person, prophet or site has his name, why is that? because allah is a false god, not worth mentioning in the Bible
3) after Jesus, christians named their children any name they wanted; be it Greek, Arab, Latin even "Jesus", yet interestingly, no "ullah's", if Jesus was a muslim as muslims claim, some of His early followers would have changed their names to "ullah", yet Saul became "Paul", Simon became "Peter" (Latin) or "Cephas" (Greek), why is that? silly you, because they were not muslims
4) names meant something back then, they were used to claim things or ideas or religion or hopes or dreams,

why do you thing people name their daughters "Destiny" now?

Now for why aren't there Quran manuscripts in the old times if Islam was in the beginning. Dude Quran is the continuation, and restoration of the previous message.

continuation, restoration? Dude, you crazy! the quran has nothing to do with the Bible, except as a false teaching, they get names wrong, facts wrong, Mohammad made a convoluted mess when he wrote the quran, he recited wrong messages, no chrisitian would believe

And as for Allah as the meccan God. My friend then ask all your Bible scholars in Arabic to NOT use Allah in their Bibles. And oh yeah that moon god stuff is so bs. Allah may have been among the many gods worshipped by the Arabs it doesn't mean that it is the wrong God.

if you read the Bible you would know, that when that happened, God sent prophets to correct them, God hated when people worshipped others, He did not let it idly go by with out comment. God cut out those that worshipped others, like the Northern kingdom of Israel, which set up temples in Dan & Bethel, was taken away by the Assyrians

It's like the Jews made the calf when Moses went on the Mountain. They believed in Yahweh and also the calf. That makes Yahweh a pagan god just like you claim about Allah.

those Israelites (jews did not exist until about 622BC), were recent pagans from Egypt, they wanted to worship a god, since Moses had taken too long for them to wait, read it yourself, its no excuse for them, look at God's punishment to them

Get this simple concept IN YOUR MIND. Later on people can begin adding gods into their religion as did the Jews and still be worshipping the ORIGINAL TRUE GOD. Same as the Jews did. Arabs are no different.

Get this simple concept IN YOUR MIND, God does not except counterfeits, God does not say, half plus one is ok, the only "ORIGINAL TRUE GOD" is "YHWH", heres a secret, find out what "YHWH" means, then "what 'allah' means, if you can tell the diff, then you will be that much closer to God, choose wisely

If you can't understand this simple concept. Then you are also following a pagan God aswell.

Peace be unto you

If you can't understand this simple concept. Then you are following a pagan god named 'allah'

peace, love

 

[786]

I hate to bring out your monumental stupity in public, so sorry, but here goes:

1) if allah was the god that Abraham, Moses or Jesus worshipped, they would have named their children after that god, as pre-muslim arabs did, like Mohammad's father "Abdullah", or as muslims did after they converted to islam, why are the jewish prophets named for "YHWH", not for allah? like Isaiah, Jeremiah, "iah" is short for "Yah", or as in Jesus's name, it has the short "Ye" in Y'shua, meaning " "YHWH" saves", his name was not "alla-shua", since allah can not save even himself
2) why is allah's name never mentioned in the Bible, no person, prophet or site has his name, why is that? because allah is a false god, not worth mentioning in the Bible
3) after Jesus, christians named their children any name they wanted; be it Greek, Arab, Latin even "Jesus", yet interestingly, no "ullah's", if Jesus was a muslim as muslims claim, some of His early followers would have changed their names to "ullah", yet Saul became "Paul", Simon became "Peter" (Latin) or "Cephas" (Greek), why is that? silly you, because they were not muslims
4) names meant something back then, they were used to claim things or ideas or religion or hopes or dreams,

why do you thing people name their daughters "Destiny" now?
continuation, restoration? Dude, you crazy! the quran has nothing to do with the Bible, except as a false teaching, they get names wrong, facts wrong, Mohammad made a convoluted mess when he wrote the quran, he recited wrong messages, no chrisitian would believe
if you read the Bible you would know, that when that happened, God sent prophets to correct them, God hated when people worshipped others, He did not let it idly go by with out comment. God cut out those that worshipped others, like the Northern kingdom of Israel, which set up temples in Dan & Bethel, was taken away by the Assyrians
those Israelites (jews did not exist until about 622BC), were recent pagans from Egypt, they wanted to worship a god, since Moses had taken too long for them to wait, read it yourself, its no excuse for them, look at God's punishment to them
Get this simple concept IN YOUR MIND, God does not except counterfeits, God does not say, half plus one is ok, the only "ORIGINAL TRUE GOD" is "YHWH", heres a secret, find out what "YHWH" means, then "what 'allah' means, if you can tell the diff, then you will be that much closer to God, choose wisely
If you can't understand this simple concept. Then you are following a pagan god named 'allah'

peace, love

I'm going to make this brief cuz the whole thing about name is just too stupid.

Okay about the names again. Naming oneself with "ullah" doesn't do crap. Well you gave examples of Jeremiah, Isaiah. Okay where is the God type name in Moses?

About the Quran as falso and all that crap. That is dependant on Faith, so you have your faith I have mine.

Allah in the Bible? You are joking me. Read the Arabic Bible, if you don't find Allah then tell me. (And please read some books on Linguistics, maybe, just maybe you can understand 1 word after you read 1000 books on it)

Changing name from Saul to Paul and blah blah. Well when you become muslim you have the choice to change your name, if you don't it doesn't mean you are not muslim. It's probable that people of that time changed there names, do i care? (as I said from the beginning this topic altogether is stupid )

"God sent prophets to correct them", right exactly my point. NEWSFLASH-----Muhammad (pbuh) was a prophet according to us.

Yeah I know God hates when someone adds God to his religion or whatever, and as you said the temple was taken away. The Kabaah was taken by the Muslims from the idolators!!!!

You talk of punishment? riiighttttt...... You Trinity believers will face the punishment in hell!!! (Hear O Israel, Your Lord is One Lord!!!!!!!!!!) But atleast you agree they DID worship a god other than that "Yhwh". The readers can decide.

Now the meaning of Allah and YHWH, well I know and I have decided.

Okay now stop this stupid topic on names!!!

Peace be unto you

 

[WildBlueYonder]

I'm going to make this brief cuz the whole thing about name is just too stupid.

Okay about the names again. Naming oneself with "ullah" doesn't do crap. Well you gave examples of Jeremiah, Isaiah. Okay where is the God type name in Moses?

Okay now stop this stupid topic on names!!!

Peace be unto you

to you its stupid, because it shows the inconsistancies of Mohammad, but names are important, because it shows many things, like allah is male, had a wife named allat, see below:

http://www.blessedquietness.com/alhaj/page15.htm

What LIL hath joined together...
Allah and Allat

We have already cited evidence that these deities were all in place before Muhammed. Now, we need to examine more carefully one last thing about Mecca and the local environment. That is, we need to get to know Allah and Allat better as husband and wife.
First, the claim of Muhammed and Islam, that Allah is a god without a physical body or representation, does not hold up under examination. Arabic, like many of the languages of the world, gives male and female gender to nouns, and it genderizes the verbs to harmonize with the noun or subject they modify. In "Fatiha," the opening Sura in Al Koran, the Sura consists of only twenty-nine Arabic words, the masculine gender is used in twenty-six words, twelve applying to Haji Allah. Here it is with the masculine words in bold Italic print:

In the name of Allah the beneficent, the merciful,
Praise be to Allah, Lord of all creatures,
The beneficent, the merciful,
The king of the day of judgment.
Thee we serve and thee we ask for help.
Lead us on the straight path,
The path of those whom thou hast favored,
Not of those on whom is wrath,
Nor of those who go astray.

The Allah of Islam is indeed masculine just as he was in Sumer and all along the way to Mecca. As is obvious in ancient Sumer, Babylon, and Greece, a god who is clearly masculine may also have a wife. (FOOTNOTE 110: 123 / 194-196 / 1468 plus Sura 1 and 53) The marriage arrangements in Islamic Paradise uphold this picture, while the heaven of Christ rules out marriage.

 

[Marlin]

I don't have a horse in this race, but I just want to say that it is somewhat satisfying to see Randolpho hemming-n-hawing away like he accuses me of doing, hehehe.

 

[anonymous2]

Allah is male and has a wife named Allat? I guess we can also say Yahweh is male and has a female consort. http://cc.usu.edu/~fath6/bible.htm

I guess I just find it somewhat interesting that an argument that can be used against religion A by an adherent of religion B can also be used against religion B.

 

[johnahmed]

funny how you, a muslim, wants to trash Christianity with an obvious forgery (GoB),

but what you really miss is the lack of evidence for pre-islamic islam, why is there no evidence for the worship of a non-pagan allah, before Mohammad cleaned up allah's act?

listen, if allah had taught islam to Abraham, Moses, David, & Jesus, why is there no early manuscripts of the quran, say from 100AD?
if christianity & judaism had all these false off-shoots, like gnosticism, that survived long enough to write down their thoughts, why didn't pre-islamic islam?

***************
The ignorance of some christians like the above amazes me sometimes...
so there is lack of evidence of pre islamic islam in biblical times ?? thats because early Judaism was Islam... in all but name

the same arguement could be used against christianty ...for example,why did not the early prophets worship jesus ? why did they not call upon the father son and the holy ghotst trintiy crap ?? surely if moses and jesus worshipped the same god moses woudl have worshipped the trinity ? yet not a single utterance of "father,son andholy ghost" in the old testament..
why ? because modern christianty is pauline heresy.. has nothing to do with the real jesus

As for Allah being a different 'god"... the christians realy are at a loss here
its simple.. very simple.... i'l tell u why...
Who do christians worship in Bethlehem ? answer ALLAH
who do christains worship in Nazerath ? answer ALLAH !!
who do christians worship worship in Jerusalem ? answer ALLAH!!
Where ever jesus preached the gospel, what do christans call god, answer ALLAH., Yes even in the church of nativity u will hear utterences of the word ALLAH,infact in the entire middle east the word ALLAH is used for god by Christians and Muslims, where was Jesus born ? Middle east !!

iv spoken to countless christians of varying nationalites,never have i heard a christians refer to God as YHWH !!.. makes me wonder if they believe that is his name, why don't they use it, why use the word "GOD" if u already know his name is YHWH ?? U ASHAMED OF IT ????

There is only 1 word used for God in the Land of jesus by muslims and christians and that word is ALLAH !!

Ever wondered what jesus might have called God ? its quiet simple, we all know jesus spoke aramiac... .check up an aramiac dictionary for the word "god" u will see Elah... an almost identical to Allah.. spell it how u like but its Allah !!

Allah not in the bible ? get me an aramiac (the language jesus spoke)translation of the bible and i will show u hundreds of places where it says ALAH/ELAH !!
Get an arabiac bible and Allah is everywhere!!
still in doubt ? go to syria, there are still christians in remote parts of syria who speak aramiac,yes the exact language jesus spoke,ask them who god is and u wil hear nothing else but ALLAH !
I REST MY CASE..

 

[786]

to you its stupid, because it shows the inconsistancies of Mohammad, but names are important, because it shows many things, like allah is male, had a wife named allat, see below:

http://www.blessedquietness.com/alhaj/page15.htm

Okay Randolfo just shut up now. If you think names are important, good for you. I'll let the readers decide. As I told you Islam allows people to change or NOT to change there name. Your name could be Alex and be a Muslim!!!!! That is why name with "ullah" or whatever isn't important.

And now you site your Christian site about the pagans and on and on.........I already said IF Allah WAS one of the gods worshipped by the pagans, it doesn't nullify anything.

Jesus is now worshipped as God, but in the time of the jews they didn't worship anyone Jesus. You are pagan then. and that YHWH is a pagan God now and so is Jesus, right? Stop bsing and I told you once before i guess you don't understand. You come out with hatred and all your bs and statements. DEBATE objectively. Go back and read your statements in all your hateful threads you have created, and see how many times have you actually proven something which is not based on your own statements filled with hate.

Peace be with you

 

[786]

Allah is male and has a wife named Allat? I guess we can also say Yahweh is male and has female consorts. http://cc.usu.edu/~fath6/bible.htm

I just find it somewhat interesting that an argument that can be used against religion A by an adherent of religion B can also be used against religion B.

Well, he uses a stupid argument based on statements, anyone can do that so really this is not an argument but personal opinions.

Peace be unto you

 

[786]

funny how you, a muslim, wants to trash Christianity with an obvious forgery (GoB),

but what you really miss is the lack of evidence for pre-islamic islam, why is there no evidence for the worship of a non-pagan allah, before Mohammad cleaned up allah's act?

listen, if allah had taught islam to Abraham, Moses, David, & Jesus, why is there no early manuscripts of the quran, say from 100AD?
if christianity & judaism had all these false off-shoots, like gnosticism, that survived long enough to write down their thoughts, why didn't pre-islamic islam?

***************
The ignorance of some christians like the above amazes me sometimes...
so there is lack of evidence of pre islamic islam in biblical times ?? thats because early Judaism was Islam... in all but name

the same arguement could be used against christianty ...for example,why did not the early prophets worship jesus ? why did they not call upon the father son and the holy ghotst trintiy crap ?? surely if moses and jesus worshipped the same god moses woudl have worshipped the trinity ? yet not a single utterance of "father,son andholy ghost" in the old testament..
why ? because modern christianty is pauline heresy.. has nothing to do with the real jesus

As for Allah being a different 'god"... the christians realy are at a loss here
its simple.. very simple.... i'l tell u why...
Who do christians worship in Bethlehem ? answer ALLAH
who do christains worship in Nazerath ? answer ALLAH !!
who do christians worship worship in Jerusalem ? answer ALLAH!!
Where ever jesus preached the gospel, what do christans call god, answer ALLAH., Yes even in the church of nativity u will hear utterences of the word ALLAH,infact in the entire middle east the word ALLAH is used for god by Christians and Muslims, where was Jesus born ? Middle east !!

iv spoken to countless christians of varying nationalites,never have i heard a christians refer to God as YHWH !!.. makes me wonder if they believe that is his name, why don't they use it, why use the word "GOD" if u already know his name is YHWH ?? U ASHAMED OF IT ????

There is only 1 word used for God in the Land of jesus by muslims and christians and that word is ALLAH !!

Ever wondered what jesus might have called God ? its quiet simple, we all know jesus spoke aramiac... .check up an aramiac dictionary for the word "god" u will see Elah... an almost identical to Allah.. spell it how u like but its Allah !!

Allah not in the bible ? get me an aramiac (the language jesus spoke)translation of the bible and i will show u hundreds of places where it says ALAH/ELAH !!
Get an arabiac bible and Allah is everywhere!!
still in doubt ? go to syria, there are still christians in remote parts of syria who speak aramiac,yes the exact language jesus spoke,ask them who god is and u wil hear nothing else but ALLAH !
I REST MY CASE..

Hey,

Thanks man, that is exactly what I'm trying to tell him, and that Allah is in the Bible. But facts don't affect him only statements do .

Peace be unto you

 

[Michael]

lack of evidence of pre islamic islam

???

:bugeye:

Well, one should assume that pre Islam (that is, before Islam) there would be no Islam!!

But that also begs the question what is Islam. I’d say Islam is simply ME culture – so there is no pre-Islam - - until, that is, you get to the point of pre-ME culture.

As such "Islam" has evolved as ME cultures have evolved. The various ME religions of course go hand in hand with ME culture and followed the same route. There is a clear progression from the old Mesopotamian/Hindu gods and they're evolution into the newer religions. Which continues on to this day.

Feel free to add to this but to me it seems to go something like:

Hindu + Babylonian + Canaanite Pantheon --> Judaism --> Christianity --> Islam --> Sufism --> Baha’i --> Ahmadiyya --> etc…

If this is the case, then one should expect to see in pre-Christianity Europe, the worship of old European Gods (and we do: See Greek/Roman/Nordic Pantheon etc) and in Egypt the worship of old Egyptian Gods (and we do Pharaoh etc..) and in Arabia the worship of the Arabian Pantheon (all of which we also see).

Therefor, we should see the incorporation of those Gods (the names, the traditions, the mythos/nature-stories) into the new systems as they spread - and we do. So it's not surprizing to see a Babylonian/Canaanite God turn into a Jewish God or an Arabic tradition (like walking around a big square rock for good luck) to continue to be observed.

And we do.

So, I don’t see what the fuss is?

Basically the ME mythos are modified little by little over time as the societies/cultures change until we get to present day belief. Which I am sure will continue to be modified (ex: Ralians).