Good lies?
- Thread starter MLS
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If given a choice between telling a lie and letting someone die unjustly which would be the moral choice?
It would be the immoral option to allow someone to die, not to tell a lie.
For me, in my own judgement of my moral values, it all comes down to intention.
It would be the immoral option to allow someone to die, not to tell a lie.
For me, in my own judgement of my moral values, it all comes down to intention.
one_raven said:
So a politician holding the same philosophy as you is not permitted???
If you can hold such a view of lies, how can you ask another not to hold that same view? That makes no sense, does it?
And you talk of "current social standards" as though there is such a thing! But even if there were, are you saying that SOME are permitted to lie, but others can't because of some standing in the society?
Baron Max
one_raven said:
I don't think morals should or can be decided by FORCING someone to do or not to do something.
Telling a lie is immoral .....being FORCED to lie is neutral. There is nothing to compare, nothing to decide, and certainly nothing on which to form ones opinions of morality.
one_raven said:
I agree. A lie is an INTENTIONAL attempt to deceive someone.
Baron Max
Judge not, lest ye be also judged! ...LOL!
Judging someone, anyone, by what they type into anonymous Internet forums is not a very smart thing to do ...besides, who are you judging? ...just the name "Baron Max" or a person of whom you know absolutely nothing?
Baron Max
Judging someone, anyone, by what they type into anonymous Internet forums is not a very smart thing to do ...besides, who are you judging? ...just the name "Baron Max" or a person of whom you know absolutely nothing?
Baron Max
Absolutley. A politician is a public servant sworn to serve and answer to the general populace.Baron Max said:
He damned well better act in accordance with currently accepted moral guidelines. If he lies, he runs the risk of jeopardizing possibly millions of people. The gravity of the potential and the nature of the job he chose insists that he acts in a "moral" way.
Again, there IS a difference between philosophy and practice.
devils_reject
Registered Senior Member
Too many to think of to be honest with this thread. A lie is just when the truth is only known by you is all; how else are you going to protect the truth? Everything good needs protection once in a while. Living a lie or in oblivion is much worse. Besides they compliment each other.
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Of course, everyone's morals are slightly different, depending on our individual views of right and wrong. Do we value honor or our own preservation? Ourself first, or everyone else, or certain others? Power or principle? It all depends. In my view, a person that trys to protect someone from pain by lying, even if they have the best intentions, are in fact weakening that person. On the other hand, a lie that was told to protect someone from something unethical or unjust, by your own standards, is moral in that it represents you sacrificing your own integrity for a higher value. For instance, if you were to lie about the location or actions of a murderer who killed because he was getting revenge for what happened to a friend or lover, that would be moral if you believed the killer was in the right. Overall, a the moralness of a lie is very controversial, but anytime a lie is told to harm someone it is immoral, even if that person is an enemy.
one_raven said:
Sure, but what if, like you, he feels that some lies are justified for the "common good"? See? If YOU hold that some lies are okay, how can you hold a public servant of ALL of the people to hold the same values as YOU?
one_raven said:
But as you can see by the posts here, most seem to feel that lying is sometimes okay and those vary according to respondent. Yet you somehow feel that we have some kind of "accepted moral guidelines"? If so, what the hell are they? And who makes that decision?
one_raven said:
But that could be true of every person who lies ...why is the politician or government official so different? And aren't politicians just good ol' regular people? ...or are they something like gods or something?
And what of, say, intelligence personnel? They're just regular ol' people, not politicians, for sure. Yet you seem to hold them to a higher standard, right? But then, what of the regular ol' people on the street who provide info to the intelligence personnel? Is it okay if they lie?
And if they lie to the politicians, and the politicians tell us what the intelligence people say, then the politicians aren't actually lying, are they? See? Take it down the "food chain" and you'll see that lying just ain't a good thing to do ....for anyone, anytime!
one_raven said:
So ...philosophy is just for talking and arguing, but has no place in the realities of life? What an interesting concept. Is that something like "idealism" and reality? Idealism is just for discussing at parties, but in the real world, we have to make adjustments for reality?
Baron Max
Hazard_Inc
Registered Member
if you dont do ur homework tell ur teacher...
"Mickey Mouse ate it"
"Mickey Mouse ate it"
Arquibus said:
So the liar is the ONLY one who can know whether it was a lie? Isn't that sorta' like allowing a murderer to say whether he killed someone or not?
The thing that keeps bothering me on this thread is how so many people approve of lying, yet my guess is that most, if not all of you, would be highly pissed off if a politician were caught lying. How can you hold such a convoluted philosophy of lying?
Lies are immoral. To hold any other view is to give your approval to lying by anyone to anyone ...including politicians and government officials! How many of you really want to do that?
Baron Max
It is not giving that permission to people if only certain lies are alright. In fact, it is illegal to lie in the very way that I stated was acceptable. However, morals are not always a question of right and wrong but of how right or how wrong. Is it more wrong to tell the truth and let a man innocent of any real wrongdoing die, or to tell a lie to allow that man to live?
Again, Arquibus, you're saying that lying is all right/moral sometimes, but not other times. But then you don't say how or who is to determine whether to lie or not. And yet, you go on to say that some it's illegal to lie sometimes (presumably for politicians?). Who and how do they make that determination?
So you think morality is in degrees? Little lies are okay, but big, giant lies aren't? ...LOL!
And your last sentence is something that i've mentioned before ......you can't coerce someone into lying, then call it immoral.
Baron Max
So you think morality is in degrees? Little lies are okay, but big, giant lies aren't? ...LOL!
And your last sentence is something that i've mentioned before ......you can't coerce someone into lying, then call it immoral.
Baron Max
My point is that some things are worse than others. A lie spoken for an unavoidable reason is morally alright if it was the only thing to prevent something worse happening. Also, it is up to the person tellin the lie as to whether or not it's moral, and people's morals can very. I do not agree with lieing except under dire circumstances (to protect the life of another, but not myself; to prevent atrocity; to further a worthy and important cause; etc.) And my point about the legality is that sometimes lies that are moral are illegal, whereas sometimes those that are immoral are legal. It is basically up to the individual to decide on morality, but at the pointwhere that interferes with other's rights, chosen morality is limited. If a politician lies about something that will harm me, it is wrong, but being realistic, unless I am ever-vigilant I will never know until it is too late. Personal issues are more important than the big picture to me now.