Define "perfection".
God Loving and Compassionate?
- Thread starter Hellenologophobia
- Start date
per·fec·tion
[per-fek-shuhn] Show IPA
–noun
1.
the state or quality of being or becoming perfect.
2.
the highest degree of proficiency, skill, or excellence, as in some art.
3.
a perfect embodiment or example of something.
4.
a quality, trait, or feature of the highest degree of excellence.
5.
the highest or most nearly perfect degree of a quality or trait.
6.
the act or fact of perfecting.
[per-fek-shuhn] Show IPA
–noun
1.
the state or quality of being or becoming perfect.
2.
the highest degree of proficiency, skill, or excellence, as in some art.
3.
a perfect embodiment or example of something.
4.
a quality, trait, or feature of the highest degree of excellence.
5.
the highest or most nearly perfect degree of a quality or trait.
6.
the act or fact of perfecting.
We are a species which ever compares new knowledge with that already acquired, ever seeking which one is the best and so, in theory, moving closer to 'perfection'.
This tendency, which I suggest is a logical survival strategy inherent in many species, is further reinforced by our early conditioning in society, especially where such includes religious instruction.
"Judge not others, lest ye be judged."
Yet, in search of improving ourselves, we are constantly assessing, judging and re-prioritizing.
IMO, this is quite alright, as long as we judge only ourselves and our past versus present performance. Comparing ourselves to others and/or judging them serves no helpful purpose, yet our society largely fosters competition rather than co-operation.
Each of us is doing the best we know how at the time......
It appears Lori posted a dictionary definition of perfection. (I have Lori on ignore, so I'm relying on Scheherazade's post...) I notice 4 of the 6 definitions have the word perfect in the definition... That's not very useful.
But it does help illustrate a point... God is supposedly perfect, but apparently his work (i.e. - us) is imperfect.... Why the contradiction?
But it does help illustrate a point... God is supposedly perfect, but apparently his work (i.e. - us) is imperfect.... Why the contradiction?
i agree that this is the ideal. i'm not sure i would agree that this is going on with everyone though, or en masse. collectively i don't see improvement really, and i anticipate corrections that are not voluntary.
LIGHTBEING
Registered Senior Member
Hellenologophobia,
It's just something that validates their belief system. Good, bad or indifferent - they will always search for a silver lining.
What a pitiful argument on their part. It's just another example of how religion hijacks logic and reason.
I had a tragic death in my family a couple months ago and the way my "Christian" family carried on about it, justifying and validating the situation based on their beliefs was appauling.
Hang in there.
It's just something that validates their belief system. Good, bad or indifferent - they will always search for a silver lining.
What a pitiful argument on their part. It's just another example of how religion hijacks logic and reason.
I had a tragic death in my family a couple months ago and the way my "Christian" family carried on about it, justifying and validating the situation based on their beliefs was appauling.
Hang in there.
While it is the ideal for each of us to become self-correcting from the experience and education derived from others, I observe in others species as well that not all individuals chose or may be capable of comprehending the behavior desired by the collective.
Our behaviors and interactions are more advanced than most other species, perhaps entirely because we have evolved this concept of a compassionate figure.
Whether we profess to be religious or atheist, all who have been conditioned in a Christian society will have been affected by the lessons of morals and ethics.
In nature, there is a point whereat the needs of the collective come first. Individuals are expendable.
Even if one believes in compassion, with or without god, where does one draw the line, because the line is ever shifting.
One simple example from my own experience with horses, which can be transposed to other situations.
One of my dear horses became ill, and the cause not definable or treatable. For almost a week she would not eat and she became an absolute bone-rack.
She was an aged horse, and many would have humanely euthanized her for economic reasons.
She seemed not to be in pain, beyond being painful to my eyes, and I had her under shelter and observed that she was drinking water in moderation.
I could not do it, though I have done the deed when it is necessary. The reason being that there was still the spark of life in her eye. I would continue as I was about until she keeled over or asked to be put out of her misery, but it was not my privilege to decide this matter.
A few days later, I observed her making jaw movements and lip-licking, the equine sign of relaxing. She then started to nose me, seeking interaction and I tempted her again with fresh picked grass and she took it and began to chew and swallow. Her appetite had returned and she recovered, eventually going to live with one of my students for the remaining six years of her life.
Sometimes being compassionate requires enduring considerable pain yourself, in my experience.
With condolences for your loss, LIGHTBEING.
The validating and justification that some persons may present as argument, is a coping strategy for justification of their own belief system, in my opinion.
If one truly does not have a faith based system, one reasonably expects that fortune, both good and bad, has about an equal opportunity of befalling us all, no matter how well intentioned, cautious and optimistic we may be.
SHIFT HAPPENS.
Everything is in motion at all times and not everything abides by the universal traffic laws which generally organize and maintain the whole infrastructure. ( My simplified understanding of the cosmos.)
Bad things happen to good people equally often as the other way around.
What we believe is in large measure a source of our ability to endure challenges and hardship. A believer may find it easier to accept god's will, because then they are not entirely responsible. Believers also have strong net-working bases and skills to assist in many cases.
The non-believer accepts more personal responsibility in many cases, has been my observation and experience.
As stated previously, I am of no religious affiliation. I accept responsibility for my own choices, including that one.
A self-declared Christian? How capital! :bugeye:
LIGHTBEING
Registered Senior Member
Agreed, it has helped them cope with the reality of the loss, nevertheless, it is still appauling. To actually glorify "God" because of it seems to be a huge injustice and diservice to her.
It is my experience as well that believers tend to find it easier to deal with reality ( what they call God's will ). On the other hand, strangely I do feel a bit of responsibility, eventhough it was totally 100% out of my hands. I keep on replaying the event in my head and somehow always picture or want to picture myself intervening in someway - which would have been utterly impossible.
i would agree that God is a perfect God..
i wonder if God thinks he is perfect?
and why can't God be perfect and accept imperfect creatures?
and yes i will accept that we will be made perfect in the afterlife,(where is that verse?) which also intones that we are not capable of making ourselves perfect.
(avoiding the argument that we are perfect just the way we are)
so much unknowns in that statement..
yes i will agree God wants good,but that does not mean we have to be perfect.
again it says we are not capable of making ourselves perfect.we will be transformed by God into perfect beings..( or at least we won't care about perfection.)Agreed. But one day some of us will be transformed by God into a perfect state of being. Isn't that good
my emotional state of being says that is the goal.(to exist in a place where i never feel worthless..ergo perfect.)
my mental state of being says that in heaven, it is unimportant how i feel.
my physical state of being will be no more.
my spiritual state of being will be perfect.
-----
to create a desire to make ourselves the best that we can be,
perfection is not a reasonable goal, perfection is subjective, perfection can be distracting from what you really need to work on,(IE God is working on one area of your life while religions ideals of perfection tells you to work on all these other areas)
religion has capitalized on the whole perfection equals heaven..then spells out what is considered perfection..(not saying that everything they think of as perfection is in error, just the ones where we slip in our own flavor of perfection(which in essence is what i am arguing)).
The best that I can be, is different than the best you can be..
Sin in this world will not be abolished..if you are human, you are a sinner (for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God)..we do our best to have control over ourselves so we don't sin,(isn't control ourselves a recurring theme throughout the bible?)
there are alot of sins we can control ourselves, but not all..Some sins can be controlled with the help of others who understand what you are struggling with. i think through these two processes it eliminates alot of sin in our lifes, but still "for all have sinned", we still have sin in our lives. I believe God gives credit for 'close enough'..those that don't try to control their own sins at all, are the ones that are gonna be in a underworld of hurt.
I can empathize. For many months after my husband's heart attack, I could not resume my normal activities because I was apprehensive that something might happen when I was not there.
He understood, yet chided me with the observation that every time I go out on a horse, something might happen to ME and he would not be there. Yet he would never suggest that I should not live my own life, nor that I should blame myself for things which I have no control over.
Logically, anything can happen to any of us, at any time, whether we somehow contribute through our choice of lifestyle, activity or become the collateral damage of the choices of others or the victim of a natural catastrophe.
Yet emotions do not easily yield to logic, I have found, despite my being a more logical thinker than many.
It would be very convenient to accept that 'it's god's will'.
Instead, I try to accept that things are as they are, and attempt to do my best at any given time.
To accept responsibility for things beyond my control seems to be a shortcut to insanity......I'd rather prefer to imagine myself to be somewhat rational......
Just rambling thoughts....
I’m a good person. I’ve pitched in for friends and family during times of crisis. I help whenever I can. I’ve gone out of my way to never hurt anyone and I put in extra effort to make sure the people around me are comfortable. I am nice, polite, and a good listener. The type of person everyone counts on. I’ve never asked for anything and they’ve never offered.
My family is predominately Christians. I just received some bad news regarding my daughter’s health.
Two of my family members said, “Well, are you finished being an atheist, now?"
They're implying that it's my fault. That God is punishing my daughter because of me.
Can you believe this?
This is a good example of how modern day christian beliefs can cause pain to others, that is emotional pain to you for their stupid beliefs.
I have a christian family as well, they like to make you feel guilty for being an atheist.
Well God is willing to be longsuffering to imperfection because it probably a necessary stage that had to be gone through in His eternal plan.
God wants free willed beings to share in His existence in eternity.
Seems to have that He must put up with those who have the free will to reject Him, for a time, but not forever.
You got to develop an eternal outlook on things.
Don't be locked up in the here and now.All Praise The Ancient Of Days
So you think you know more about God then He knows about Himself? i got to laugh
Why can’t you be fat and sit down and eat a big meal next to a starving person lying on the ground beside you? Or maybe you could do that?
There is no argument to avoid because we are not perfect.
The statement was very clear as far as i am concerned.
Yes we do need to be perfect in eternity. Now we need to believe in what is perfect.
I believe i will have a body in eternity and that i will not be in Heaven. But that’s another issue all together.
Who said perfection was a goal we need to work towards achieving? Not me.
Of course the thinking that we can work towards a goal that is achievable for us, and that makes us acceptable to God, is one which the Pride in men wants. Pride rejects being perfected by God. Pride wants to justify itself. Pride wants the bar set to a level that pride can work to achieve.
Without examples your not arguing anything of substance.
Guff. Where do people get pompous BS talk like this.
Sin in this world will be abolished through the transformation of Humanity on the Day of Judgement. Striving to do good is just a reflection of believing in what God has revealed as Good. No one ever achieves it to Gods level though. Our righteousness are as filthy rags to Him.
So what sin have you eliminated? Give me an example.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
I'd share my meal with him, whereas your version of god would have him hauled off where he can't be seen.
I’m a good person. I’ve pitched in for friends and family during times of crisis. I help whenever I can. I’ve gone out of my way to never hurt anyone and I put in extra effort to make sure the people around me are comfortable. I am nice, polite, and a good listener. The type of person everyone counts on. I’ve never asked for anything and they’ve never offered.
My family is predominately Christians. I just received some bad news regarding my daughter’s health.
Two of my family members said, “Well, are you finished being an atheist, now?"
They're implying that it's my fault. That God is punishing my daughter because of me.
Can you believe this?
Hope the ''bad news'' can be turned around.
Regarding your parents remark, is there a context attached to that statement, or was it one-off?
Why do you think it implied what you thought it did?
jan.
dunno how you got here from that statement..So you think you know more about God then He knows about Himself? i got to laugh
bad example..
thats what i would argue,but i have heard the opposite.
another statement that concludes perfection is in this world,even with an identifier that it is not..
.
you did.
i will agree with that.
again how do you get here from my statement?
yes,i agree..
i don't do meth anymore..i don't drink..i don't sleep around with just any woman..i buy the guys that work with me lunches..i worship no other Gods..i don't envy my neighbors stuff..etc,etc,etc...
Made up ideas about a made up being adopted from an old book of morality tales to make people behave well towards each other.