god just never listens...or replies

exactly.. thats why all the theists give money to the church in some faint hope that god will do you a favor,whatever it may be.
the preachers are bunch of con men praying on the brainwashed ones
yeah YOU :D
IF there was god do you think she would need your fng $$$.??
how would those preachers deliver it anyways? :rolleyes:
you dudes are hillarious for falling for their rippof con game hook line and sinker,

I don't know about the US but in India the priests work to help the disadvantaged. A church close to my house frequently held open air fairs in the church grounds which were based entirely on contributions from the parish and other non-Christians in the locality. Along with the fun and games that go with a fair children of poor people had an opportunity to purchase ( for nominal sums) used clothes, toys, books as well as food items prepared or donated by the parish and the donation money and proceeds from the fair were used to conduct evening or night classes for those children who worked to support themselves or a family (there are a lot of runaways and rural immigrants in Bombay). The money was also used to conduct funeral services for those who could not afford them.

Donations to the church were used to provide food for those who were terminally ill or who required nursing or assistance or accomodation in hospices and could not afford it.

the f'ing $$$ are very useful when properly utilised.
 
I don't know about the US but in India the priests work to help the disadvantaged.

It's true in the USA, too, Sam. The greater majority of faith-based charities in the USA are valid, honest, hardworking people trying their best to do good things for the poor and disadvantaged.

A few selfish, greedy dirtbags shouldn't taint the good that's done by the greater majority.

Baron Max
 
What makes you think theists know what they're looking for either? I think we all have experiences (especially as children) of having deep belief in things that exist only in your imagination. So I know all too well what it takes to believe in god.

It takes self sacrifice, and that is not a negative thing.
 
It takes a willing suspension of disbelief and complete trust without evidence. In other words, you need only be gullible.
 
Well, regarding God's listening to and answering Prayers. Indeed, the most part of humanity has the valid intuition that while there is a Providential God who listens to and commiserates with some human beings, it is clear that God does not listen to them all.

The Catholic Church as known and recognized this fact since almost forever, and so believers are categorized as either ordinary, or somehow 'blessed'. Saints are defined as those whom God chooses to deal with.

Now, in the instance of people sending letters to some Preacher, well, then, we must assume that they regard him as something of a Saint. Knowing that God is not listening to their own prayers, they ask some Preacher or other Holy Man to 'intercede' for them. The Theory is correct. Only they failed to discern a True Saint.

Saints are rare. Right now at this moment I could not name a Catholic Saint.. not a living one. Oh, there was Father Nacho who was raising the dead to give them their last rites. You see, Last Rites are supposed to be given while the people are still alive, but everyone is careless and they call the Priest too late, and when he arrives the patients are already dead. Well, most Priests play along and simply give the Last Rites to the dead body, and cross their fingers about it. But Father Nacho would cross them a few times and they would 'revive' long enough for the Last Rites to be administered, and then they would die again. Well, the Doctors and the Nurses were extremely disturbed over all of this and so they asked Father Nacho to please leave the dead people dead. And so he agreed. But, certainly, we must regard Father Nacho to have some real connection to Providence. However, he is a frumpy rude little Priest and doesn't conform to the popular conception of what a Saint should appear like, and so nobody would think of him as a Saint.

The Other Higher Religions may also have Saints. There was a recent Marian Apparition in Medjugorje Hersegovina. some of the Seers there asked Her if there were any "Saints" in the villiage. Well, She was honest with them and told them that Saints were very few anywhere, but in that villiage, the closest person to the criteria was a certain little old lady. It turnes out that this little old Lady was a Muslim. Well the Seers were shocked. But Mary told them that who and who is not a Saint is entirely up to God.

There have been documented Saints in Sufism (traceable to Zoroastrianism although they claim today to be Muslim, probably so they don't get their heads cut off by their kind Muslim neighbors), Saints of Yoga (I don't call it Hinduism, because much of Hinduism is, well, racist or crazy), Saints of Mahayana Buddhism (to be distinguished from original Buddhism.. the philosophy of a spoiled child who wished to replace supernatural religion with a secular philosophy).

Also, where we have Intercession with God and His Angels, we have, on the other side, demonic intercession. So, in the Carribean and in Africa and in various places in the Latin World we can discover Sub-Religions that specialize in Curses, Spells and Charms. People are looking for help, and if God will not oblige, then they consult with the devils.
 
Well, regarding God's listening to and answering Prayers. Indeed, the most part of humanity has the valid intuition that while there is a Providential God who listens to and commiserates with some human beings, it is clear that God does not listen to them all.

The Catholic Church as known and recognized this fact since almost forever, and so believers are categorized as either ordinary, or somehow 'blessed'. Saints are defined as those whom God chooses to deal with.

Now, in the instance of people sending letters to some Preacher, well, then, we must assume that they regard him as something of a Saint. Knowing that God is not listening to their own prayers, they ask some Preacher or other Holy Man to 'intercede' for them. The Theory is correct. Only they failed to discern a True Saint.

Saints are rare. Right now at this moment I could not name a Catholic Saint.. not a living one. Oh, there was Father Nacho who was raising the dead to give them their last rites. You see, Last Rites are supposed to be given while the people are still alive, but everyone is careless and they call the Priest too late, and when he arrives the patients are already dead. Well, most Priests play along and simply give the Last Rites to the dead body, and cross their fingers about it. But Father Nacho would cross them a few times and they would 'revive' long enough for the Last Rites to be administered, and then they would die again. Well, the Doctors and the Nurses were extremely disturbed over all of this and so they asked Father Nacho to please leave the dead people dead. And so he agreed. But, certainly, we must regard Father Nacho to have some real connection to Providence. However, he is a frumpy rude little Priest and doesn't conform to the popular conception of what a Saint should appear like, and so nobody would think of him as a Saint.

The Other Higher Religions may also have Saints. There was a recent Marian Apparition in Medjugorje Hersegovina. some of the Seers there asked Her if there were any "Saints" in the villiage. Well, She was honest with them and told them that Saints were very few anywhere, but in that villiage, the closest person to the criteria was a certain little old lady. It turnes out that this little old Lady was a Muslim. Well the Seers were shocked. But Mary told them that who and who is not a Saint is entirely up to God.

There have been documented Saints in Sufism (traceable to Zoroastrianism although they claim today to be Muslim, probably so they don't get their heads cut off by their kind Muslim neighbors), Saints of Yoga (I don't call it Hinduism, because much of Hinduism is, well, racist or crazy), Saints of Mahayana Buddhism (to be distinguished from original Buddhism.. the philosophy of a spoiled child who wished to replace supernatural religion with a secular philosophy).

Also, where we have Intercession with God and His Angels, we have, on the other side, demonic intercession. So, in the Carribean and in Africa and in various places in the Latin World we can discover Sub-Religions that specialize in Curses, Spells and Charms. People are looking for help, and if God will not oblige, then they consult with the devils.


two words: yeah, right.
where do you people get this garbage. "oh, of course god doesn't listen to your prayers directly, you need to go through a spiritual conduit, like a true saint" that's not only ridiculous, its borderline insane. please exit the matrix.
 
These people arnt stupid, theyre just desperate, when youre at your lowest eb almost *anything* is worth a shot. Not that ive ever sent a letter to a higher power, but i can understand the thinking behind it.
 
Blind God! Deaf God! See us! Hear us!

...he can't see, he cannot hear, but he can feel through your eyes and eyes of others, through your ears and ears of others, through your hands and hand of others.

gw_10.jpg
 
two words: yeah, right.
where do you people get this garbage. "oh, of course god doesn't listen to your prayers directly, you need to go through a spiritual conduit, like a true saint" that's not only ridiculous, its borderline insane. please exit the matrix.

Actually even interms of just mundane social networking - the best way to get in contact with someone important is to get in contact with a third party who is dear to the important person
 
*************
M*W: So, you're saying that god doesn't listen? There is no god. There isn't any higher power to listen to! It's all a fig newton of your imagination! Believe what you want, but don't expect any miracles. There is no god. There is no savior!
 
So you're saying God needs the help of a third party in order to hear prayers?
No you are looking at it from the wrong perspective - we need the help of a third party because we are unqualified for a direct union (doesn't matter whether you are talking about how to network to a famous person of this world or how to approach god)
 
Actually even interms of just mundane social networking - the best way to get in contact with someone important is to get in contact with a third party who is dear to the important person

Ohhhhhh....

So, we are not all dear to "God, our father", only the clegry is.
God doesn't give a flying fuck about us, unless we have an "in" with one of his crew.
That explains it.
Thanks for the clarification!
 
seriously, poetry aside - did these people really think their letters would reach god or that god would do something about it?

Yes. But God doesn't need to open letters too see what people have written. He read all the letters even before they were written. He reads our thoughts, and he answers every one of them. Atheists too, of course.

M*W: So, you're saying that god doesn't listen? There is no god. There isn't any higher power to listen to! It's all a fig newton of your imagination! Believe what you want, but don't expect any miracles. There is no god. There is no savior!

God gives us everything we want. You thought (wished, believed) that he does not exist, therefore he does not exist for you.
 
He read all the letters even before they were written. He reads our thoughts, and he answers every one of them. Atheists too, of course.

Then writing the letters and posting them through the pastor was pointless and ineffectual, then, was it not?

1.) Since he knows all our thoughts, wishes, dreams and the number of hairs on our heads, why would the letters need to be written at all?
2.) What would this simple, mortal man have to do with making sure God reads them?
 
1.) Since he knows all our thoughts, wishes, dreams and the number of hairs on our heads, why would the letters need to be written at all?

to demostrate our faith. to make ourselves believe in it. if we don't believe god will help us, he will not help us, instead, he will just give us more evidence that he does not help us. writing a letter to god is sort of a ritual. like praying. the problem is not that god doesn't listen (he always listens)... the problem is that we don't believe that he listens. so we have to work on our belief. anything can make our faith greater. like science. philosophy. religion.

it's not necessary to write down your prayers/wishes, but it can help. christians always cross their fingers when they pray, but it's not necessary either. not even words are necessary. god/universe does not hear the words themselves, it responds completely to the thoughts and feelings we send out. if we think about bad things, god gives us bad things. we attract bad things. and if we think about good things, we receive good things. and the more we think about it, the more we manifest it, because we attract that kind of thoughts, and the thought currents concentrate and become stronger, feelings, belief, matter, reality...

to get what you want, imagine already having what you desire. keep dreaming and the dream will become reality. if you believe it will.

the material world is not exactly like dreams though. it's not as spiritual. thoughts can take a little time to manifest. it's not a direct limit in physical reality, but more in ourselves. it takes a little time for us to accept that this is how it works. but once we start believing, it becomes easier and easier.
 
to make ourselves believe in it. if we don't believe god will help us, he will not help us, instead, he will just give us more evidence that he does not help us. writing a letter to god is sort of a ritual. like praying. the problem is not that god doesn't listen (he always listens)... the problem is that we don't believe that he listens. so we have to work on our belief. anything can make our faith greater. like science. philosophy. religion.

So, you have to force yourself to believe in God?
What I am reading is that itt is a conscious decision you make to believe in God, then you must perform these rituals to manifest that desire to believe into being.

If believing in God is something that you must convince yourself of, THEN you have certain actions you perform in order to force that thought into a reality, I don't understand why you make that conscious decision in the first place, because it quite obviously is counter-intuitive and does not align with your thoughts and core beliefs, because you have to make yourself believe it.

I am not trying to play games here, and I am not saying anyone's belief is right or wrong, because I simply don't know myself.

What I do know is that a belief in Abraham's God certainly does not come natural to me, and it seems that it doesn't come natural to you either - and you are one of the more vehement believers I know.

It makes me wonder two things...

1.) What is the difference between you and I? Believing in Abraham's God does not come natural to either of is. Why is it that I accept that as a reason to not believe, and you decide to fight against that tendency and force yourself to believe?
2.) What other "believers", does it also not come natural to, and have made the conscious decision to make themselves believe against their nature?
 
I have absolutely no doubt that what I believe is what I believe.
I don't have crises of faith.
I don't have to question and wonder if what I believe is truth.
I don't need to have my faith redeemed.
I don't need to have any faith-manifesting rituals.
I don't feel the need to have others agree with my beliefs to make them valid.
I never doubt for a moment, even in the most dire of situations, that what I believe is absolute truth.

I can't imagine what it must be like to live without that surity.
I couldn't live if my faith needed constant reaffirming and constant conscious effort to keep it replenished and keep it from dehydrating.

If I felt that way, I would have to change my beliefs, because it would be painfully obvious to me that I am fighting against myself and attempting to force myself to believe in something that I simply do not believe in.
I'm not very good at lying to myself, nor do I want to be.

I prefer truth to self-induced placebo.
 
No you are looking at it from the wrong perspective - we need the help of a third party because we are unqualified for a direct union (doesn't matter whether you are talking about how to network to a famous person of this world or how to approach god)

Actually, what you are essentially saying is that God plays favorites. God, unlike a famous person, is omnipotent. He doesn't have the excuse of being too busy or exhausted that he can only communicate with preachers and the faithful (ie: The presidents of his fan club). So if he is going to ignore starving children in third world countries in favor of millionaire preachers in the states simply because they are more 'holy', I call that playing favorites. He should be a big enough of a man too look past his ego and actually help out people, even the people that don't have faith in him or pray to him. Instead he stands idley as innocent people are beheaded. Oh wait, I forgot, anytime anything bad happens it's our fault, and anytime anything good happens is in the grace of God's glory that it happened.
 
Actually, what you are essentially saying is that God plays favorites. God, unlike a famous person, is omnipotent. He doesn't have the excuse of being too busy or exhausted that he can only communicate with preachers and the faithful (ie: The presidents of his fan club). So if he is going to ignore starving children in third world countries in favor of millionaire preachers in the states simply because they are more 'holy', I call that playing favorites. He should be a big enough of a man too look past his ego and actually help out people, even the people that don't have faith in him or pray to him. Instead he stands idley as innocent people are beheaded. Oh wait, I forgot, anytime anything bad happens it's our fault, and anytime anything good happens is in the grace of God's glory that it happened.

*************
M*W: You've just described Jenyar here!
 
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