God is not everywhere
- Thread starter jojo
- Start date
Lemming3k said:Does anyone have a record of it?(record outside of a holy book of course you should know that by now though)
Well, good thing I brought that up.
I watched this thing on the History Channel which noted that the parting of the Red Sea was not an event significant enough to be recorded on temples and the such. Don't blame me, that's what I heard and as we all know, The History Channel people know History!
Lol, the aliens will drop me some tonight im sure....
Im not sure how they came to that conclusion, thats like not recording the first moon landing, though thats not your fault of course im just saying the only evidence is in that book, its circular logic, you believe the book because of what it says and what it says you believe without anything else, this is what i dont understand, yes the moral things are correct, but that is the same in all holy books and doesnt prove the rest correct, the other things may not be.
Archaeological proof requires more than 1 script, otherwise it is no more truth than fiction, please explain how the bible is accurate 1,000,000 times without using itself as proof.
Also you ignored my piece of paper, does that mean you have no arguements against it? Trust me it reads like the bible.
Lemming3k said:
I'm saying I got that information from the History Channel, not the Bible. No one says the moral "part" proves the spiritual part, but how can one be taken in without the other?
P.S. I've got Scully and Mulder on the phone, they say the aliens are coming your way fourteen hundred hours eatstern time.
Lol, we'd get killed if someone from Pseudo heard us talking like this.
I know, and it said there wasnt any evidence due to it being 'insignificent' (which is frankly bullshit as i know i'd definately record something as important as the sea parting), but i was just generalising with the circular logic thing, very little supports the bible and it is constantly quoted as a lone reference for 'truth', which to me is illogical.
Many people suggest that 'this is true therefore its likely the rest is'(even though the first but might not be true), and im not suggesting we dont take them into account, just that it doesnt 'prove' a lot, im actually not completely against the idea of a god, just the gods depicted in holy books written by man, which do have mistakes in.
lol, they were late, must be due to the different timezone, unless aliens catch trains.....
Yep, and they hate it if you mock them, especially when they claim something without backing it up other than saying 'one day you'll see i was right'.
Sorry, I forgot about it.
Has your piece of paper managed to keep a central theme throughout:
the 1500 years it was written?
the 40+ people that authored it
being written on three continents
being written in three languages
Has yor paper caused a religious group to be pursecuted for over 2000 years and still have followers?
Has your paper been been translated into 240+ languages?
Has you paper been the most published paper?
The last two tie in with this comment:
"If you are an intelligent person, you will read the one book that has drawn more attention than any other, if you are searching for the truth."
-Professor quoted in Josh McDowells A Ready Defence pg.33
Has your piece of paper managed to keep a central theme throughout:
the 1500 years it was written?
the 40+ people that authored it
being written on three continents
being written in three languages
Has yor paper caused a religious group to be pursecuted for over 2000 years and still have followers?
Has your paper been been translated into 240+ languages?
Has you paper been the most published paper?
The last two tie in with this comment:
"If you are an intelligent person, you will read the one book that has drawn more attention than any other, if you are searching for the truth."
-Professor quoted in Josh McDowells A Ready Defence pg.33
It hasnt been written 1500 years, but way is time relevent? How old something is doesnt affect its reliability or creditability, unless you suggest the older a religion is the more authentic it is, in which case go talk to Osiris or Ra.
Theres a note at the bottom with 40 names of people that came up with it, though that still doesnt prove authenticity, 40 people is a very small number and doesnt stop them getting together and making it up does it? Or even one person faking 40 names.
How do you know it was written on 3 continents?(outside reference please)
That could be arranged quite easily, and still doesnt prove any authenticity.
Persecution doesnt prove authenticity, and since christianity is losing followers it does make you wonder a bit doesnt it?
It can be arranged.
Its only been around 1 day, give it time, you religious types are so impatient. And again something being published doesnt add realism or authenticity, unless your suggesting delias 'how to cook' is more authentic than mums home made lasagne?
Truth in a book that has no proof of it being true other than itself? Interesting.
I conclude:
If you are an intelligent person you will read the one factual book that has evidence outside of itself to back it up, if you are searching for the truth(try an encyclopedia).
I've shown several, god wouldnt need a council to decide on anything as he'd already know the outcome (being all knowing as you say), he'd also know we were going to be a destructive race of bastards and yet still created us, also it is unreasonable to assume he has always existed but a universe cannot have always existed, and then theres cruelty and death issue, he punishes everyone, believers and non-believers, he also regularly punishes people with death for not believing in him or doing minor things wrong, he is claimed just and mercifull yet would let good people suffer in hell for simply not believing in him, or being gay, it is claimed you cannot die for anothers sins yet its claimed at least one person has(jesus), genesis is scientifically wrong, and the bible and its followers try to define something which cannot be defined, im sure theres more this is all just off the top of my head though, my theory is if christianity is correct the christian god would be alone in heaven as not a single person has followed all his words(as they are in the bible). The bible simply worked 2000 years ago when people were uneducated masses, dumb and didnt know any better, and it kept them in line with the governments ideals, the bible contradicts itself many times over and lacks supporting evidence outside of itself, it is entirely circular logic that no longer stands as masses are now educated better.
Its fine if you want to believe in god but god could never be defined and it could never be known what he wants us to do, but im sure he knew i was going to say that
.Indeed it is, though many truths may never be known until we die.
Because many works this old are no longer in existance. The abillity to survive, even during pursecution is amazing.
Could you add that note? I don't remember seeing it earlier.
People that lived in differant time periods couldn't get to getter to write some religious book. This ties in with the 1500 years.Jerusalem in on Asia, agree? Rome is on Europe, and Egypt is in Africa.
Yes, but is it something people want to read? Does it give them hope of a better world, not really.
People don't die for a joke, something they don't believe in. Why then in countries such as China do people CHOOSE to die rather than denounce there faith. Would someone do that with your peice of paper? Would thousands of people?
Generally people don't buy a book if they have no intention of reading it. Your mom's lasagne may be good, but don't you at least want to see why every one else likes "how to cook"
There is other proof. Archaology and historical stuff that can back it up.
I do read encyclopedias. Encyclopedias can only give me theories, it cannot give me absolute truth.
Many ancient texts were burnt in the fire at the great library of alexandria, though i repeat age doesnt add authenticity, what you present is perserverence by many generations and desperate belief and fighting spirit that perhaps should be praised but it doesnt add any truth to the matter.
So the book was added to, so i shall add to my paper in due course, one name at a time, i do have 1500 years after all.
Agreed of course, i know my geography, but you didnt prove it was written where you say, i could write a book on america, that doesnt prove i was there when i wrote it, or even that i'd been there.
If people stopped messing about and did good in the first place we wouldnt need hope for a better world, we'd already have a decent one, why not stop saying that it gets better in 'the next life' and realise this may be all we get and we are making one big fuck up, it shouldnt be comforting that we can do what we want with this one and stand a chance of going to a perfect place. And it may turn out to be false hope, there may be millions of people who have now experienced false hope, and it still doesnt prove that its true, especially when the hope can be false.
Believing something doesnt prove authenticity, and by your gods own words many people have died for not believeing in him, so like you say, people dont die for a joke do they?
I would hope they wouldnt be so foolish, but again it doesnt prove theres any truth in it, number of believers doesnt prove truth, 500 years ago virtually everybody alive believed the world was flat, and that we were the center of the solar system, amount of believers didnt prove either true.
Theres a difference between reading something and believing it, even i have read the bible.
If this proof existed religious people would instantly provide it to prove their stories, they dont, partly because proof takes away the need for faith, just like if god was proven we would no longer need faith in it, and thats the underlying premise for all religion, and partly because it isnt there.
It depends what your looking for, and im afraid if your looking for an absolute truth there are very few of those indeed, i believe theres a line in the bible about insects having 4 legs, in the scientific world they have 6, that doesnt mean to say they all have 6 though, as im sure you have seen cows with 5 legs or some such thing, but the majority have 4, that is most certainly not a theory.
I want something that is factual and has been proved so, other holy books dont count if thats what your thinking, and i shall consider the source carefully as to whether or not it may be bias, so a christian book full of claims but yet again lacking in evidence will be considered in the usual manner.
Amazing yes, but not a sign that anything contained within the book is even remotely real.
The Epic of Gilgamesh is currently the world's oldest known text, predating the bible by well over one and a half millennia. As it has survived all the odds for thousands of years does that mean Gilgamesh and Enkidu killed an ogre? Does it mean there were half man-half scorpion beings living in the mountains?
You cannot use age as a sign of validity.
They wouldn't have to.
A) people can find a manuscript and start up a story from where it left off. It is not a sign of validity
B) religious stories would have been handed down from generation to generation, and even taught to young people as part of their minimal education, or even so far as to say: entire education.
This is not a sign of validity. You know how many people have read Lord of the Rings?
That is what humans are like. The amount of christians, jews, hindus, muslims, incas, vikings and south american tree people that have died for their beliefs is astounding. That does not mean that any of these peoples beliefs was valid in any way whatsoever. Honestly, you're clutching at straws.
That's not exactly true. Many hotels across the world buy the bible without any intention of reading it - but merely to put in a hotel room in the hope that someone else will. Millions of bibles sitting in a cupboard never being read. That's the way it is.
Not at all. Archaeology has shown that places have existed, but not that any apparent events happened. They even found the city where Gilgamesh was king, but does that in any way prove or show that Gilgamesh was a demi-god who battled ogres and giant scorpions?
Theories are so much better than personal opinion and assumption - which is all you'll ever get from the bible.