God is love?

Re: The obvious isn't obvious?

Originally posted by Bridge
Isn't that the reason they're referred to as prophecies? Or is it the arguement they (not sure who they is myself) molded Jesus' life and death to match these prophecies? I have heard that one before but I'm not sure it makes much sense.
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It makes perfect sense, particularly given the relative sloppiness of the attempts.
 
Originally posted by Persol
My next question would be.. why do Jews not believe Jesus is their savior? Especially if God in Hebrew means 3 in 1.
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They believe that there is a savior, but that Jesus wan't it. They are still waiting for a savior to come
 
Originally posted by Kython13
They believe that there is a savior, but that Jesus wan't it. They are still waiting for a savior to come
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I have a question for any knowledgeable Jewish people out there who could provide some enlightenment in this arena - is the Jewish concept of a messiah the same as the Christian concept of a savior? If not, how are they different?
 
Originally posted by Nehushta
is the Jewish concept of a messiah the same as the Christian concept of a savior? If not, how are they different?
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Yes, it is the same concept. However, the Jewish people expected a military leader to make them supreme over all nations and to bring world peace.

"And he [the messiah] shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks. Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war anymore." -- Isaiah 2:4

"But you shall be called 'priests of the Lord', men shall say of you, 'ministers of our G-d'; you shall eat the wealth of the nations, and in their riches you shall glory." -- Isaiah 61:6

Christians believe that Jesus died and was resurected and that these prophecies will be fulfilled in the end times. The following link is a website containing a list of prophecies that the Jews believe Jesus failed to fulfill (hence their justification that he was not the Messiah but merely a prophet [at least some say that, others call him a blasphemer]). However, each of these prophecies is related in Revelation and/or Daniel in relation to end times prophecy. All are to be fulfilled during the end times.

http://torah.freeyellow.com/18.html
 
Your basic argument seems to be "If you believe God can choose to save you, and believe in Jesus being God on earth, then Jesus is your savior". That logic seems to flow except that I don't buy the 'trans-historic' part of His sacrifice.
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A little digression to be considered for a separate thread:
If God created the universe, then he created space/time/matter. Assume - to create something is to be above or outside of it. What would being outside of time be like? Would you experience everything/all at once/forever? Wouldn't this answer the "trans-historic" question?

"We now return you to the regularly scheduled program..."
 
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The King of Babylon

So you are admitting that the "King of Babylon" (a.k.a., Lucifer, the Morning Star) in Isaiah 14 and a similar character referred to as the "King of Tyre" in Ezekiel 28 are both archetypes for Jesus? Well, that makes sense to me, but color me surprised that you would agree!
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Not quite. You seriously believe Jesus and Satan are similar in nature? Yikes. Do I have to read the interpretation of how you arrived at that conclusion? I'm sure it will be forthcoming.
 
Just a point...

Originally posted by Kython13
... Because Jesus is a part of God. The very first sentence of the bible starts "In the beginning, God..." Gen.1:1
That word God, in its Hebrew form, literally means three in one. Thus from the very start, the Bible tells you Jesus is not just God's son, but also part of God himself.
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Just a note on this. In Gen 1:26 God said let us make man. Gen 3:22 God refers to himself as more tha one entity. Alos, again, in Gen 11:7. In the whole creation account. God used 'The Word' to create all things; 'Let there be'. Compare with John 1:1-5.
 
Re: Re: The obvious isn't obvious?

Originally posted by ConsequentAtheist
It makes perfect sense, particularly given the relative sloppiness of the attempts.
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Is this accepted as fact, or is it just opinion?
 
Re: Re: ok persol... once again...

Originally posted by Persol
Originally posted by withoutGodIamnothin
... 2 Thessalonians 2:11-12
"Those who refuse to believe (v.10) eventually become incapable of believing. When ppl resist God, he allows a hardening to develope."
It doesn't say "God shall allow them strong delusion" it says send them...[/B]
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2 Thessolonians 2:10-12"... They perished because they refused to love the truth and to be saved.[11] For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie[12] and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness. Looking at the previous verse God doesn't seem to be the culprit after all.:)
 
Naturalist's opinion on supernaturalism

It's a judgement about such silliness as the virgin birth.
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In one word: Opinion

Silly to you, not to others.

A supernatural event such as that described in the virgin birth account are not repeatable and presumably one time only events. Not unlike the Big Bang, if it happened more than once, how can we know? Neither of these events requires belief that the event was natural/supernatural, ordinary/extraordinary but it doesn't necessarily negate that it happened that way either.
 
Re: Re: Re: ok persol... once again...

Originally posted by MarcAC
Looking at the previous verse God doesn't seem to be the culprit after all.
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No.. it still says the same thing. The people didn't 'love the truth' so God lied/deluded them more.
 
Originally posted by Persol
It has been claimed here that the only possible way to interpret the bible is to believe that 'god is love'. What does this actually mean?

How is killing all life on the face of the earth love?
How is Lot giving his daughters to be raped love?
How is animal sacrifice for god = love?
How is killing the firstborn child love?
How is a plague love?
How is drowning an army love?
How is destroying people who do not believe in god = love? Ex 22:20
How is killing someone for breaking Sabath love? Ex 31:14
How is killing Korah for arguing with Moses love?
How is killing all of the Midianites, including the children, excluding the virgins... love?
How does killing for worship of the wrong god =love? Deut 6:15
How is commanding people to stone others who don't believe you love?
How is ording the sons of Levi to kill = love?
How is god supporting the act of Phinehas killing a woman with a spear love?
How is god letting Judah kill = love?
How is killing people because the pronounce "shibboleth" wrong = love?
How does god sending Isrealites to their death love?
How does god's killing of the other side (Benjamites) equal love? (once again kill all but virgins)
How is killing people who look into the ark love?
How is killing 70000 others for the 'sin' of David equal to love?
How is killing the Syrians love?

etc... etc... etc...

It is much more acurate to say "God is indecisive"
Hell, he doesn't even rememebr the order in which he created the universe... but I guess that's just a 'small' detail.
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God is the antithesis of evil, which is called Holiness, which is defined as moral perfection. He is not more loving that He is Holy, and He is not more Holy than He is loving.

Becasue He is perfectly Holy, He constantly wars against all forms of evil, resisting them, and driving them to their own destruction, using any means necessary.

In Isaiah 6, the angels surrounding God's throne are calling out Holy, Holy, Holy. They are not saying Love, Love, Love.
 
Re: Naturalist's opinion on supernaturalism

Originally posted by Bridge
In one word: Opinion Silly to you, not to others.
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Absolutely true. It's the opinion about a wholly unsubstantiated and unverifiable story of a supernatural event authored by apologists decades after the event. People believe in all kings of silliness.
 
6-Winged Insects for God

Originally posted by biblthmp
In Isaiah 6, the angels surrounding God's throne are calling out Holy, Holy, Holy. They are not saying Love, Love, Love.
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Isaiah 6:2
  • Above it stood seraphim; each one had six wings: with two he covered his face, with two he covered his feet, and with two he flew.
You have 6-winged angels, the Daoine Sidhe have Pixies, and Dr. Seuss has Sam-I-Am who does not like green eggs and ham.

I suggest that children are healthiest when introduced to Dr. Seuss, although the Faerie Kingdom also has a certain charm.
 
Re: Re: God is love?

Originally posted by biblthmp
God is the antithesis of evil, which is called Holiness, which is defined as moral perfection. He is not more loving that He is Holy, and He is not more Holy than He is loving.
I understand that you believe this, but what is it based on?

using any means necessary.
But when God has every means at his disposal, why would he pick these?
 
here this....

previously said by Persol:

How is killing all life on the face of the earth love?
How is Lot giving his daughters to be raped love?
How is animal sacrifice for god = love?
How is killing the firstborn child love?
How is a plague love?
How is drowning an army love?
How is destroying people who do not believe in god = love? Ex 22:20
How is killing someone for breaking Sabath love? Ex 31:14
How is killing Korah for arguing with Moses love?
How is killing all of the Midianites, including the children, excluding the virgins... love?
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etc etc.......




God isn't just a God of love (which i strongly agree that He is)

God is also a God of judgemnet and justice
He does not and cannot put up with evil,
thats why all those things happen(ed).

God isn't just only love, God is also something to be feared. Fear of God is the beginning of wisdom.
That's where the world is wrong. We need to respect God and fear him. Revere Him. Thats why it says in the Bible that we are not to judge because God is the one that judges and justice will be carried out....we are not to take justice into our own hands like most of the world does.
 
just something interesting to read.....

Read this...I'm not sure if its right right right on topic....but I liked it and it has to do with God's love. So please read it.

"Humans constantly put conditions on how much they love someone. They say they love you, but if you make a mistake the love is suddenly gone. We all do it. It's kind of hard not to. We are only human. But that's why God's love is so great.

Hosea 14:4 is just one of the many examples in the bible of how much God truly does love us. No matter how far we are from Him or how much we've done against Him, He is still waiting for us to turn back to Him. His love is completely unconditional. It's hard for us to truly grasp how or why God would love us so much, but that's where we just need to just stop and trust Him. He proved His love by sending His only son to die for us. All He is asking us to do is love Him back. And when you begin to, you will feel
exactly what it's like to be loved unconditionally."


Selah
 
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