God is love or we Get Infinite punishment for our finite sins

Alan McDougall

Alan McDougall
Registered Senior Member
God is Love

This is the Good News taught by Yeshua of Nazareth, Jesus the Christ. God is the Father, not just the Source of all that is, but the loving Source of all that is. Or as St. John even more succinctly put it, God is love. Not "loving." Not "full of love," but simply is love, period. Because God is universal love, the early church often held the idea of universal salvation. But unfortunately, the Good News often becomes "mixed news" in modern church pews.

The distorted version of Christianity taught to many is a subtle dualism, with an eternal heaven and eternal hell, eternal bliss and eternal torture, an eternal God saving the few, and an eternal devil snaring the many. This teaching is terribly mistaken, yet widely accepted—even demanded—in many branches of Christianity.

Eternal Torture?
There is the idea that God is love, but will also torment all who "do not accept Jesus" (itself a gross misunderstanding of the gospel) forever. The resulting image is not only monstrous, but an impossible contradiction. It's inconceivable to imagine any person causing the pain of another forever.

Maybe a a day perhaps. Maybe a few years, if I'm exceptionally evil. But who among us would torture even Hitler forever? If he were tortured a year for every person who died in World War II, that's 530,000,000 years. And as some would gladly remind you, that's not even a second as far as forever is concerned.

No one other than a psychopath could torment anyone endlessly. No father could punish his children endlessly. But some say that the One who is Infinite Love does it forever. Something is wrong!
We have been told that:
• the punishment for finite crimes is infinite punishment.
• the One who is infinite Love has finite patience-but patience is a quality of love! (1 Cor. 13;4)
• the One of infinite might has a plan that finite man can thwart.

The threat of eternal torture is like a gun pointed to a person's head. It turns a loving invitation into spiritual rape.

A further problem is that an eternal punishment is pointless, since it does not rehabilitate or heal. Shall we accept this picture at face value, contrary to our own knowledge of love, contrary to our own experience of God's nature, and contrary to innumerable promises of Scripture, or, shall we delve deeper, to get at the mystical truths of what the Bible calls judgment and salvation?

Eternal?
Nothing in the Bible suggests that punishment after death is irrevocable except for the drama of some images and the entrenched mistranslation of some words and passages. The word in the Greek NT most often translated as "forever" or "eternal" is aion which means an age, and the adjectival form, aionian, means age-long. This is the source of the English word eon. The corresponding Hebrew term is olam, "age" or "world."

Both these terms indicate conditions with an indefinite, but not an infinite, duration.

Eternal and forever are unfortunate mistranslations for age and world, both of which end, as God is the Creator and Sustainer of both.


Blessings and light

Alan
 
people are so emotional about this. it's hard for me not to envision a lot of people sucking their thumbs and twirling their hair and pouting over why god doesn't like them. getting mad and throwing a temper tantrum about it.

let's try to be more objective...

there is something seriously fucked up with the human race, and it makes us suffer, and die. it's a defect that jesus wasn't born with. and it is only when our bodies become like his that the suffering and death desist.

so this isn't about whether you like jesus or jesus likes you, or whether you feel like holding hands and praying on a sunday morning. this is about do you want whats wrong with you fixed, so you can be free, or do you want to suffer like this forever? this is about whether or not you would like to live in a world that is free of suffering and death, because this one we have here now is not, and it's going straight down the shit hole. and if you like a shit hole, and you're attached to it emotionally, then you can have it, indefinitely. and all indications are that it's just going to get worse, and worse, and worse. you can curse god's meanness.

take a look at the suffering in this world. the atrocities. open your eyes! to the way it has been for as long as we know...as long as we can remember. do you really think religion is going to help us? another politician? a new philosophy? a new technology? REALLY?!?!?!

and then when confronted with a real solution you whine, "well, does it mean i have to go to church on sundays?"

WAKE UP!
 
We are being objective. Infinite punishment for finite actions is an absurd, childish overreaction. There is no reason for it; hell, there is no reason to punish people for most of the stuff Christianity claims are punishable in the first place.
 
We are being objective. Infinite punishment for finite actions is an absurd, childish overreaction. There is no reason for it; hell, there is no reason to punish people for most of the stuff Christianity claims are punishable in the first place.

hell is a result. hell is a consequence. your actions are not finite and consequence doesn't poof into thin air. i think, that if someone doesn't have a problem with the way things are right now on this earth, they're not going to have a problem in hell either. i mean, how bad do things have to get before we're looking for a way out?
 
Denial of the Eternal nature of the Lake of Fire is rife in churchianity these days. The same people who work tirelessly twisting the scriptures to deny the eternal nature of the Lake of Fire are pretty quiet when it comes to the eternal nature of life perfected with God forever and ever and ever.

There are no posts bemoaning the injustice of an eternal Paradice reward for a limited life of faith. How unjust is that, eternal paradise, for what? How can anyone justify such a reward for such a limited life of faith?? Noooo thats different because thats a reward they say....

How true the words of Paul:

2 Timothy 4
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; 4 and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables. 5 But you be watchful in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry.



All Praise The Ancient Of Days
 
We are being objective. Infinite punishment for finite actions is an absurd, childish overreaction. There is no reason for it; hell, there is no reason to punish people for most of the stuff Christianity claims are punishable in the first place.

You are so right, hell was never intended for humanity, it was intended for the Devil and his angels. Jesus said some will be punished with few stripes and some with many stripes, thus Hitler god a worse punishment than a guy who just steal a loaf of bead for his starving family
 
The real hell is infinitely worse than you can imagine it makes the Christian concept of hell look like a kiddies Sunday afternoon picnic

and that's what i'm saying...how bad does it have to get before someone looks for a way out?
 
You are so right, hell was never intended for humanity, it was intended for the Devil and his angels.

Assuming hell exists, which I don't believe at all.

Either way, it's absurd to punish people for simply not being Christian.
 
Assuming hell exists, which I don't believe at all.

Either way, it's absurd to punish people for simply not being Christian.

to not participate in a way to abolish sin? when sin is what causes a condition like hell?
 
one of them who wants freedom? who wants an end to suffering? that's me. :)

*sigh* No. I meant one of those religious nuts who blows a fruit loop every time someone doesn't live up to the bible's scriptures...pulls one out and shoves it up ones butt saying read this abide by this when they look the other way regarding other scriptures. Nevermind that, if one picks from the Bible what they want to believe, how the bloody heck do ya know if you've picked the right scriptures to be true? Just whatever strokes your feathers friend?
 
*sigh* No. I meant one of those religious nuts who blows a fruit loop every time someone doesn't live up to the bible's scriptures...pulls one out and shoves it up ones butt saying read this abide by this when they look the other way regarding other scriptures. Nevermind that, if one picks from the Bible what they want to believe, how the bloody heck do ya know if you've picked the right scriptures to be true? Just whatever strokes your feathers friend?

forgiveness isn't getting your feathers stroked if you've ever done it.

and humility generally does not involve getting your feathers stroked.

and having a relationship with a being that clearly knows more about you than you do is not stroking any feathers.

and having that being tell you, "you are the chosen lady. you are the tree of life. you are the woman in the story of the woman and the dragon in revelations". it was the most traumatic experience of my life...the most isolating and frustrating.

you want to talk about my feathers?
 
forgiveness isn't getting your feathers stroked if you've ever done it.

and humility generally does not involve getting your feathers stroked.

and having a relationship with a being that clearly knows more about you than you do is not stroking any feathers.

and having that being tell you, "you are the chosen lady. you are the tree of life. you are the woman in the story of the woman and the dragon in revelations". it was the most traumatic experience of my life...the most isolating and frustrating.

you want to talk about my feathers?

Pray dear lady to what experience are you referring?
 
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