God is an atheist

Godless said:
Not really sam, what most atheist do is unbeknowst to me, however when they are in a forum, dealing with religion, yes we do speak against god, then most theist. Also true, most atheist, know the bible better than most christians, and a growing minority of ex-muslim know the qua'ran better than most muslims! ;)

Touche! But I've yet to meet an ex-Muslim who knows the Quran "better" so I'll reserve judgement on that.

And all the atheists I've met on this forum have far more inflexible ideas about religion than any theists I've ever met.
 
The Devil Inside said:
[sarcasm]its because they are right, and you are wrong.

havent you figured this out by now?
:p[/sarcasm]

Are we talking about who is right on the interpretation of scripture?

It could be argued forever what the correct interpretation of scripture is, so that is irrelevant. When it comes to being right and wrong, who are the ones dedicating themselves to superstitious tradition which when using common sense, is false. In other words theists are wrong if they expect these far-fetched fantasies to be true.

There really is no getting around that.
 
KennyJC said:
Are we talking about who is right on the interpretation of scripture?

It could be argued forever what the correct interpretation of scripture is, so that is irrelevant. When it comes to being right and wrong, who are the ones dedicating themselves to superstitious tradition which when using common sense, is false. In other words theists are wrong if they expect these far-fetched fantasies to be true.

There really is no getting around that.

TDI:

You are soooooo right!!!!

What was I thinking of, doubting the experts???
35.gif
 
It's not a question of being an expert, it's a question of common sense. The only thing you can reply with like any theist, is either sarcasm, avoidance, or the faith card. You have not one bit of evidence for matter of factly believing the most far-fetched superstions man has created.
 
and you have no reason to believe that gravity works the way "common sense" dictates. you believe it because someone told you. same for the THEORY of evolution (which i support), same for studies done on sonic vibration, or light being made of solid matter, or whatever.

dont act smarter than you are. you are in the same boat as everyone else.
 
and you have no reason to believe that gravity works the way "common sense" dictates. you believe it because someone told you. same for the THEORY of evolution (which i support), same for studies done on sonic vibration, or light being made of solid matter, or whatever.

All of those things have basis in reality, so why bring up scientific concepts which can be observed and tested to further knowledge?
 
KennyJC said:
It's not a question of being an expert, it's a question of common sense. The only thing you can reply with like any theist, is either sarcasm, avoidance, or the faith card. You have not one bit of evidence for matter of factly believing the most far-fetched superstions man has created.

While the evidence for your bigoted, narrow and intolerant thought process is overwhelming.
 
KennyJC said:
All of those things have basis in reality, so why bring up scientific concepts which can be observed and tested to further knowledge?

stuff falls to the ground.
THAT is the only real observation you can make of gravity, for example. everything else you "know" is secondhand.
you are engaging in hypocrisy.
food for thought.
 
The Devil Inside said:
stuff falls to the ground.
THAT is the only real observation you can make of gravity, for example. everything else you "know" is secondhand.
you are engaging in hypocrisy.
food for thought.

Of course it's second hand. That's how knowledge works.

How 'stuff falls to the ground' may be the first observation, but that's enough to know the force of gravity exists. And we also know much about how it works based on the observation on the interaction of matter. Each particle attracts every other particle with a proportiopnal force dependant upon their masses and the distance between them.

I'm not seeing a parallel with this and religion though.
 
KennyJC said:
Of course it's second hand. That's how knowledge works.

How 'stuff falls to the ground' may be the first observation, but that's enough to know the force of gravity exists. And we also know much about how it works based on the observation on the interaction of matter. Each particle attracts every other particle with a proportiopnal force dependant upon their masses and the distance between them.

I'm not seeing a parallel with this and religion though.

Why does gravity exist?
 
kennyjc: it is very simple. you and others here consistently demand "concrete" and "solid" proof of the existence of supernatural phenomena (religious or otherwise), yet the things you believe and take for granted are just as intangible and undemonstrable through cyberspace as the ideas that you condemn out of hand. sure, you can show me a website that explains these ideas with mathematics (im not a woo woo, i dont demonize science at all), but for every site you show, i can also show one of a mexican lady that met the virgin mary...or some guy that prayed for rain during a drought, and it rained...i hope you see my point.

that is all i have to say on the subject.
think about what i have said, and enjoy your time on earth.
*goes back to lurking*
 
The Devil Inside said:
kennyjc: it is very simple. you and others here consistently demand "concrete" and "solid" proof of the existence of supernatural phenomena (religious or otherwise), yet the things you believe and take for granted are just as intangible and undemonstrable through cyberspace as the ideas that you condemn out of hand. sure, you can show me a website that explains these ideas with mathematics (im not a woo woo, i dont demonize science at all), but for every site you show, i can also show one of a mexican lady that met the virgin mary...or some guy that prayed for rain during a drought, and it rained...i hope you see my point.

No I don't see your point. Scientific consensus always collectively explains to the best of our knowledge phenomena observable in the laws of our universe.

You showing websites of people who claims to have met the 'virgin mary' are only proof of one persons radical far-fetched fantasy.

think about what i have said, and enjoy your time on earth.
*goes back to lurking*

Yeah, I'll try to... Being an infidel I'll be dropping the soap in hell for eternity.
 
KennyJC said:
No I don't see your point. Scientific consensus always collectively explains to the best of our knowledge phenomena observable in the laws of our universe.

You showing websites of people who claims to have met the 'virgin mary' are only proof of one persons radical far-fetched fantasy.

The only difference between scientific consensus and the religious consensus is the difference in peer review.

As many scientific theories are discarded over time as religious beliefs; all it tells us is that the more we know, the more we know we don't know.

If you've never had a spiritual or religious experience you are not qualified to judge someone who has.


Yeah, I'll try to... Being an infidel I'll be dropping the soap in hell for eternity

I'm sure God will understand it was a spiritual mutation.
 
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Godless said:
Well I guess I started a bumper sticker thread!
How 'bout one with a wee picture of a platypus, reading This Is Your God On Drugs

:p
 
samcdkey said:
The only difference between scientific consensus and the religious consensus is the difference in peer review.

As many scientific theories are discarded over time as religious beliefs; all it tells us is that the more we know, the more we know we don't know.

Science concerned with things which exist
Religion concerned with things it has created which don't exist/no proof of

Things which can be said to exist without proof = infinite
Odds of guessing correctly = zero

Heaven, prayer, soul, spirit, hell, god, afterlife... All guesses...

If you've never had a spiritual or religious experience you are not qualified to judge someone who has.

Maybe... but that only means I don't know what it is like to be truely delusional.

I'm sure God will understand it was a spiritual mutation.

Does God really love me? Does he? It almost makes me want to believe :(
 
KennyJC said:
Does God really love me? Does he? It almost makes me want to believe :(

I hate to be the one to break this to you, but think about it...

God's... well, God.

He can have anybody he wants. Bonus of the old Omni-potence, old bean !

I'm afraid he's just using you.
 
KennyJC said:
Science concerned with things which exist
Religion concerned with things it has created which don't exist/no proof of

Science begins with a theory from which we formulate a general hypothesis.
Then we work our way to specific hypotheses and break them down to objectives that can be assessed. We experiment with the objectives and based on the results we reevaluate our objectives. This is a circular process which is either validated and repetitive or not. If it is, we go back and reevaluate our specific hypotheses, to see if the objectives prove or disprove it.

The most important basis we start with is to try and disprove our hypothesis.
i.e. we start with the basic premise that it will not work. So we design all our experiments to make sure that using all possible tools, knowledge, and abilities to make sure it does not work. If it works, that is an aberration to be explored because it means we have some new knowledge. But the null hypothesis is always equal to zero.

But what happens sometimes is that it works and we believe we have new knowledge, but its possible that we simply do not have enough information about that particular system to apply the right tools or abilities, so we got a false positive. Similarly, if we discard an aberrant result that does not validate our objective or hypothesis, we may lose an important piece of information and get a false negative. A false positive is easy to recover, because with continued increase in knowledge, tools and ability, we will one day run across the missing piece of information which will bring us back on track. But a false negative, once discarded is rarely re-considered and represents a hole in the knowledge which may be recovered only by someone who does not discard it even though it does not validate or prove his objective.

i.e. a false negative is as important as a false positive because it may lead to the development of alternate hypotheses which prove/disprove your original theory.

In short, science is a process governed not only by knowledge but by adductive reasoning and intuition. (also luck and in quite a few cases, by risks taken by the investigator)

i.e in the beginning every scientific theory begins with something that does not exist (null=zero)

Things which can be said to exist without proof = infinite
Odds of guessing correctly = zero

Not infinite, actually and limited only by the desire, ability and knowledge to gain them. Not all of them in our lifetimes and perhaps not completely ever, but surely and slowly, regardless.

Heaven, prayer, soul, spirit, hell, god, afterlife... All guesses...

If you are limited by the concepts presented to you. Remember, people have a tendency to redefine concepts so as to make them more comfortable and acceptable and easy to recognise. It is not enough to have God, it is necessary to have an image of God, when you start there, you move to a House of God, a ritual to recognise and adore God etc. In short, concepts have a way of changing shape over generations. But you need not be limited by them.

Maybe... but that only means I don't know what it is like to be truely delusional.

What is your idea of a spiritual experience? Do you expect a vision or a "voice"?
That would be difficult to rationalise.

Does God really love me? Does he? It almost makes me want to believe :(

Again you are limited by concepts; you expect Michaelangelo's God holding out his finger to you.
 
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