God has no authority over humankind.

M

Medicine*Woman

Jesus: Mythstory--Not History!
Valued Senior Member
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M*W: God is not an authority over humankind. Since humans have not been able to provide evidence pro or con on the existence of such a god, then it would be only up to god itself to make it clear who or what it is. Since that hasn't happened, either, humans cannot trust each other to identify their god, and god cannot be trusted to identify itself. All the more reason to believe god doesn't exist.
 
The existence of god(s) cannot be proven or disproven. Therefore, there is no reason to believe they exist.
 
Since When does the God of any religion say they will make it obvious to humans of their existence??
 
Medicine Woman said:
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M*W: God is not an authority over humankind. Since humans have not been able to provide evidence pro or con on the existence of such a god, then it would be only up to god itself to make it clear who or what it is. Since that hasn't happened, either, humans cannot trust each other to identify their god, and god cannot be trusted to identify itself. All the more reason to believe god doesn't exist.
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I think God is there for anyone if you really go looking. Lots of people will tell you it's not something easily put into words, let alone proved.

God is like a sage on a mountain top - who's 'authority' is sought voluntarily, because it is wisdom. It should free us, not oppress us. No-one has the pure vision, we have to use our own discernment.
 
I don't believe in God, but a believer would tell you, MW, that God does not show himself to allow humans free choice. If he came out and said heya sup ya'll? He wouldn't be a god, he'd be a dictator. People wouldn't act good because it's the right thing to do, but because they'd fear his retribution. faith is characterized by lack of proof.
 
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A better means of disproving God's existence is as follows: The Christian God is supposedly COMPLETELY good, omnipotent, omnipresent, and all-knowing. If he is completely good, knows of the suffering on earth, and has the power to stop it, why doesn't he? A COMPLETELY good being couldn't possibly tolerate what goes on down here. Why did he even create humankind, if he knew they would disregard his orders, and commit unspeakable acts against each other? The only possible god would either be ignorant, weak, or unspeakably evil. Christians would say that his lack of action is part of a higher plan; that he is testing us. If this plan involves the deaths of millions of jewish kids, and he genocide in sudan (among other things), I want no part in it.
 
Medicine Woman said:
God is not an authority over humankind.
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Medicine Woman, God/Allah or "whatever" might just well be making you write those very words ....how are you to know? He might be directing every single thing that happens with and in everyone and everything.

The problem with God/Allah/etc is that you nor anyone knows ...and to say anything about him/it is nothing but idle speculation.

Medicine Woman said:
All the more reason to believe god doesn't exist.
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Do you believe in love? If so, can you prove that it exists? Or doesn't exist?

Baron Max
 
I say....

medicinewoman does not have authority over humankind.

therefore, medicinewoman does not exist.

oh... and she cant be trusted... she as much as said so.

-MT
 
Chiraque said:
I don't believe in God, but a believer would tell you, MW, that God does not show himself to allow humans free choice. If he came out and said heya sup ya'll? He wouldn't be a god, he'd be a dictator. People wouldn't act good because it's the right thing to do, but because they'd fear his retribution. faith is characterized by lack of proof.
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M*W: How does god not showing himself allow humans "free choice?" It would be a "free choice" if god would show himself, and then let us decide. That's "free choice." As it stands now, you either believe in god on "faith," or you're agnostic because you don't know, or you're an atheist because you don't "believe." In order to have "free choice," you have to know what your options are.

People who believe in an unseen god, non-demonstrable deity, believe out of fear, and not out of reality.
 
Medicine Woman said:
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M*W: How does god not showing himself allow humans "free choice?" It would be a "free choice" if god would show himself, and then let us decide. That's "free choice." As it stands now, you either believe in god on "faith," or you're agnostic because you don't know, or you're an atheist because you don't "believe." In order to have "free choice," you have to know what your options are.

People who believe in an unseen god, non-demonstrable deity, believe out of fear, and not out of reality.
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The point is that it wouldn't be a decision if God made it clear that He exists. Everyone would bend to his will because they KNOW. It would be a clear-cut choice between living in paradise or a fiery pit for all of eternity, and it is pretty doubtful that anyone would choose the latter.

However I would think the coming of Jesus would completely defeat that point, considering He is God incarnate. The whole of Israel would have had a pretty clear conception of God's reality; the whole earth shook as a testament to this.


To steal a line from the wonderful Jesus Christ Superstar..


"If He'd come today, He could have reached the whole nation! Israel in 4BC had no mass communication."



So, kids... why the fuck is He leaving us in the dark? Where are our miracles, our testaments to the supernatural?
 
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Chiraque said:
A better means of disproving God's existence is as follows: The Christian God is supposedly COMPLETELY good, omnipotent, omnipresent, and all-knowing. If he is completely good, knows of the suffering on earth, and has the power to stop it, why doesn't he? A COMPLETELY good being couldn't possibly tolerate what goes on down here. Why did he even create humankind, if he knew they would disregard his orders, and commit unspeakable acts against each other? The only possible god would either be ignorant, weak, or unspeakably evil. Christians would say that his lack of action is part of a higher plan; that he is testing us. If this plan involves the deaths of millions of jewish kids, and he genocide in sudan (among other things), I want no part in it.
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So you sit in judgement of God. Because he does not wipe your nose and protect you from all the dangers the world poses, he is either evil or nonexistant.

Is it not possible that God, an eternal being, thinks more long term than you? People suffer on this earth. People die. But all suffering is temporary, no matter how terrible. Small consolation if you or someone you love if the one suffering, I know.

What would you have God do? Create a world of perfect safety and comfort? Provide for our every need and break up any fights that occur? Or perhaps he should have created a world of unthinking robots who would always obey his commands?

We are God's children. He wants us to grow up. To be strong. When a parent gives his children everything they want, they become spoiled brats. Weak and without character.

We were given free will so that we could choose to be good, or evil. We could choose to commit genocide, or to feed the poor. What is the point of doing the right thing, if it's not by choice? To truly be good, one must be capable of being evil.
 
madanthonywayne said:
What would you have God do? Create a world of perfect safety and comfort? Provide for our every need and break up any fights that occur? Or perhaps he should have created a world of unthinking robots who would always obey his commands.
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Or, He could have not created anything at all.

Apparently the great omnipotent one was a wittle wonely and felt the need to create various creatures that are all racing to their demise; an eternity of either pain or pleasure(of course, He already knows where we're all going).

Yes, I'd rather God not have created anything. Unfortunately there is creation, and I may spend an eternity in hell for falling prey to the logic that He constructed.
 
Medicine Woman

M*W: God is not an authority over humankind.
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This is just like saying "the president has no authority over the americans - it is th epolice force" - in other words you may say god does not have authority, but the forces of nature definitely do - your statement doesn't disqualify god's authority since there are numerous scriptural quotes that evidence nature as being under the influence of god


Since humans have not been able to provide evidence pro or con on the existence of such a god, then it would be only up to god itself to make it clear who or what it is.
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lol - on the contrary god doesn't have such a delicate ego that he is worried whether people think he is real or not


Since that hasn't happened, either, humans cannot trust each other to identify their god, and god cannot be trusted to identify itself. All the more reason to believe god doesn't exist.
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Either that or because of an absence of proper knowledge people get hitched on the details
 
lightgigantic said:
lol - on the contrary god doesn't have such a delicate ego that he is worried whether people think he is real or not
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Why send non-believers to hell then?
 
KennyJC said:
Why send non-believers to hell then?
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to make them happy of course
ananado maya bhyasat - the living entity is pleasure seeking my constituition

The real question is why would a living entity want to go to hell to be happy
 
I'm still thinking that god created all of this just so he could watch us flounder around and fight and kill each other .....like a giant video game!!

Geez, he must laugh his ass off every day of the year, huh? ...LOL!

Baron Max
 
Baron Max - that makes total sense! The universe is just a game of Pac-Man!

We are, of course, Pac Man (or Ms. Pac Man), eating away at the bits that we seek, all the while the four ghosts... er, horsemen, rush to destroy us. However, if we swallow the blinking light that we can choose by free will, then we have a chance to rise above the evil powers of the evil ones. IT ALL MAKES SENSE NOW!

:m: :eek: :confused:
 
Medicine Woman said:
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M*W: God is not an authority over humankind. Since humans have not been able to provide evidence pro or con on the existence of such a god, then it would be only up to god itself to make it clear who or what it is. Since that hasn't happened, either, humans cannot trust each other to identify their god, and god cannot be trusted to identify itself. All the more reason to believe god doesn't exist.
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God has authority over mankind, and it is not up to us to try to prove His existance.

Because God has authority over us, He doesn't have to surrender to our arguments of why we should or shouldn't believe.

It is we that have to surrender, so that we approach Him. In our humble heart towards what we feel is right.
 
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