What proof is really proof, in that case?
maybe there is none... Mostly what we have is evidence to support a belief. Yes, anyone can make wild assumptions that thor causes lightning, but evidence can help on the probability scale. As i said, yes there is always a 50/50 at the end of the day-
but following a a path of evidence seeking we can lower the probability of an assumption or make an assumption stronger.
For instance read by cup of tea analogy. If that cup of tea has rising steam you could call that good evidence to it being hot- it could also be the holy spirit taking a bath, so let's look for more evidence..... We feel the cup- wow, that burnt my hand. Probability now suggests it is in fact a hot cup of tea. Ok, sure it could be satan blowing flames onto it.. so let's look for more... I take a sip... Ouch! Thats hot.. I guess that wraps it up. Probability now shows beyond 'reasonable' doubt that this is in fact a hot cup of tea. Ok ok ok, it could be god showing us what hell will feel like if we anger him but now we look for evidence to suggest that..... Doh! There is none. Probability is not very high in that case.
Ok, we don't know everything... nobody does.
Yes, we can all make assumptions.
However just having an assumption and never being in a position where you need to show evidence is worthless. Or indeed showing evidence that isn't even evidence, (as in your former post about the stabbing incident). You might aswell just say Lenny the Leprachaun of Lunatic Road came and saved him in the nick of time.
Everything is proof of something... the subjective choice is what do you assign the evidence to?
But where does a god play any part in this, and where's credible evidence showing god might play any part in this. There's no evidence to suggest good old Lenny played any part of this, and there's none to suggest god/s did either. Try and get hold of the medical records and then we can see if that offers any evidence that did play a part in it.
About assigning evidence... Well, i wouldn't say my cup of tea being hot is evidence of there being a god/s. The evidence would suggest it had something to do with me boiling the kettle.
I wouldn't say a hot cup of tea is evidence to suggest the cause for a nuclear explosion. I'm sure it might well have been my cup of tea that caused chernobyl, the evidence just suggests otherwise.
I wouldn't say god is evidence to suggest why my lighter works.
We can all make a claim of something unseen, unknown, unheard as being the cause of everything and anything. We can also make a claim that an evil red guy with horns is the cause for all the nasty people and criminals... i could say lady chatterly is the reason i have 10 toes, but that is not evidence. That's mere speculation and conjecture.
Evidence of what, exactly? And how should I present it to you that would isolate it nicely enough?
Evidence pertaining to the existence of a god/s. There probably is none, which in itself doesn't prove there isn't, it just lowers the probability. Fuck, who knows.... there very well might be a god, there's just no worthy evidence to suggest there is. Thus any claim made is pure unfounded speculation. You can't say "There IS" and just leave it at that.... well, maybe you can, but you're only fooling yourself.
You can offer some evidence, whatever you feel is pertinent, to raise the probability of a god/s existence but that's only if you want to/can do so. However, it seems you think just because you say so, everyone should "trust" you, and believe the same. Shall i expect to see any evidence?
No list I could provide will do anything but reflect what you can read for yourself in the Bible. Or even experience for yourself.
The bible is hardly credible evidence. I will agree it's a very interesting read, but it is so blatantly flawed that it can hardly be taken overly seriously. A couple of examples:
1) genesis/ exodus/ leviticus etc are close copies of older sumerian texts based on completely different beliefs. The similarity in stories is intruiging- ranging through creation itself, noah, abraham, moses etc etc...
Old Babylonian beliefs can also be seen within the bible, (such as babylonian astronomy concerning the firmament, and the "windows" or "floodgates" that god opened and closed during the noah episode. (Not to mention the very first page where god separates the waters below and the waters above)
Here's a pic:
Click
I will explain this in greater depth if asked to do so.
2) Simple lack of human understanding..
The bible is packed to the brim with errors made due to lack of human understanding at those times. I suppose now's about the time we can look at god's own lack of understanding:
"And these are they which ye shall have in abomination among the fowls; they shall not be eaten, they are an abomina- tion: the eagle, and the ossifrage, and the ospray, etc etc... and the bat."
"And the hare, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you."
"But all other flying creeping things, which have four feet, shall be an abomination unto you."
Bats are NOT birds, hares do NOT chew the cud, and insects/flying creepy things do NOT have four legs. I suppose you could give some pathetic argument to the last one like: "Oh but god only meant anything with a minimum of four legs." But that is the style with which the thiest stretches everything to it's utter limits in a shallow attempt at rebuttal.
We can then look at the "flat earth" belief.. angels standing on the four corners of the earth etc... Even in isaiah where it states god made the 'ends' of the earth.... There are no ends, we live on a big round ball. You might well claim it's all figurative, but it fits in well with the human belief of how the planet was.
We could look mention josh 10 etc claiming god stopped the sun... even though it's actually earth thats moving, again a sign of ancient lack of understanding.
3) Plain outright contradictions.
"And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth"
Here he makes animals, then man.... now look at the next bit
"And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof."
Here he makes them after man.... But nevermind, it's not important right?
jesus says: "I and my Father are one"
jesus says: "Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I."
Make up your mind.. yeesh.
"The righteous shall flourish like the palm tree."
"The righteous perisheth, and no man layeth it to heart."
O.....k
jesus' last words: matt/luke and john: jesus says 3 completely different last words in all of them. Obviously 2 of them are wrong, unless jesus said all 3 things in which case all of them got it wrong.
That shows beyond reasonable doubt that the bible is not an inspired work of god/gods prophets etc but the work of separate individuals who kinda made it up as they went along.
"So God came to David, and told him, and said unto him, shall SEVEN YEARS OF FAMINE come unto thee in thy land? or will thou flee three months before thine enemies, while they pursue. thee?"
"So God came to David, and said unto him, Thus saith the LORD, Choose thee. Either THREE YEARS OF FAMINE or three months to be destroyed before thy foes, while that the sword of thine enemies overtaketh thee"
hmmmmmmm
"And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Isreal and Judah."
"And SATAN stood up against Isreal, and provoked David to number Israel."
Oh man..... was it god or satan ffs? surely they can't be that hard to tell apart?
"And I will take away my hand, and thou shalt see my backparts."
"And the Lord spake to Moses face to face, as a man speaketh to his friend."
"For I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved."
"No man hath seen God at any time."
"And he said, Thou canst not see my face; for there shall no man see me and live."
"Whom no man hath seen nor can see."
Oops....
"And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham."
"Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God; for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man."
I apologise for length but that just goes to show the outrageous amount of errors, (what i have put here is but a minsicule amount of overall contradictions within the bible).
4) Impossibilites.
Let's use noah as the example. 7 of each type of bird, (would make a total of 69,300 birds) [we currently know of 9,900 different birds- this changes quickly of course]. and 7 of each clean/2 of each dirty animal. Let's pretend they're all dirty to lower the amount for you. We know of 4,600 mammals. I have not included reptiles, amphibians etc. (i'm in a nice mood). That gives us 9,200 mammals that must have been on the ark. That's a grand total of 78,500 animals on an ark that biblical schematics don't give a lot of room to work with. The ark was to be made out of cypress wood- granted, it's strong, but so are elephants, rhinos etc. You'd also have to separate animals- can't put lions and deer together- so you'd need separate quarters and in many cases areas with stronger support than cypress wood.
Sorry, it's getting too long. In short, it's an impossibility. The minute you say "it's just a metaphor" that denounces any validity the rest of the bible may be given. My advice: Read the sumerian original.
Add all of these points together and what you're left with is an interesting book and look at ancient humans who didn't know too much. Aside from that it's worth absolute donkey poop.
So much for the bible....
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