George Zimmerman found Not Guilty.

[ElectricFetus]

kwhilborn,

Wooo wo wo, are you saying that just because Obama was elected president that means there is no more racism in the USA?

People are still oppressed by many factors (gender, race, creed) its a statistical thing, probabilities, for example if your black your more likely to be imprisoned then a white person, and not necessarily because your more likely to commit crimes: I posted a study before that show black people smoke less pot then whites, but are 3 times more likely to be imprisoned for it! The statistics show that if your black your far more likely to be gunned down by a white person who is exonerated of all charges, then vice verse. So statistically people have factors against them, just because a black man can beat the odds with shear talent and charisma and and become president does not mean the odds were not against him and those like him. Look at George Bush, he was a idiot, but had all the odds in his favor, white, son of a former president, all the right connections. We are not self made people, but rather where we go in life is a combination of skill, intelligence, hard work, and Luck, and extreme good luck or extreme bad luck trumps all the rest! Look at Steve Jobs (I can't beleive there making a movie for that cultist asshole!) He did not become great by talent alone, rather he had the right skills at the right times and the places, if he had been in the wrong places at the wrong times he would be nothing, unremarkable, no-body, a forgotten corpse. For most people the chances of being in "the right place at the right time" are against them more then some others simply because of the color of their skin or gentiles between their legs, or even the happenstance of whom they were born to, to deny this is delusional.

 

[Fraggle Rocker]

I posted a study before that show black people smoke less pot then whites, but are 3 times more likely to be imprisoned for it!

I have seen the statistic about three times that the rate of drug use (all drugs, not just marijuana) is identical in the white community and the black community. Black people who use drugs are twice as likely to be arrested as white people, once arrested they are twice as likely to be prosecuted, and once prosecuted they are twice as likely to be sent to prison. So they are actually eight times as likely to be in prison. The demographics of our prison population bear this out.

The statistics show that if your black your far more likely to be gunned down by a white person who is exonerated of all charges, then vice verse.

Turn the Zimmerman-Martin case around. If the stalking creep (who was violating police orders and acting under the pretense of authority he did not have) had been black and the dead child had been white, there would have been no trial. He would have been dragged behind a truck down a gravel road for ten miles and his body would be rotting in a ditch somewhere.

So statistically people have factors against them, just because a black man can beat the odds with sheer talent and charisma and and become president . . . .

Not to mention being raised by a white mother in a state where all people who are not predominantly of Asian or Polynesian ancestry are lumped together as haole.

. . . . simply because of the color of their skin or gentiles between their legs . . . .

Unless you're talking about a certain sexual activity being performed by a member of the Aryan Brotherhood, I think you meant "genitals."

 

[ElectricFetus]

Hey I trust in spell check to much, sue me.

 

[Kholdstare]

'If I had a son, he might not look like George Zimmerman. But he is the son, I'll be a hell lot of proud to have.' - Kholdstare

 

[joepistole]

'If I had a son, he might not look like George Zimmerman. But he is the son, I'll be a hell lot of proud to have.' - Kholdstare

Yeah, I mean who wouldn’t be proud of a violent son, one who assaults a police officer and puts a 9mm slug into the heart of an innocent unarmed child on his way home from the market and then tells different stories about it.

Don’t look now, but your racism is showing.

 

[Kholdstare]

Yeah, I mean who wouldn’t be proud of a violent son, one who assaults a police officer and puts a 9mm slug into the heart of an innocent unarmed child on his way home from the market and then tells different stories about it.

Don’t look now, but your racism is showing.

Yeah. Whatever. I'm proud of George Zimmerman.

 

[Fraggle Rocker]

Yeah. Whatever. I'm proud of George Zimmerman.

Thanks for identifying yourself. We'll all be very careful not to let you move into our neighborhoods--we've already got enough sociopaths walking around with guns. Better yet, not into our country but I have a sinking feeling that you're already here.

 

[spidergoat]

Yeah. Whatever. I'm proud of George Zimmerman.

I doubt even George is proud of himself.

 

[kwhilborn]

@ Electric Fetus,

are you saying that just because Obama was elected president that means there is no more racism in the USA?

I know word twisting is popular here, but my main point is that a black man has no idea what a white man might experience. I am saying in this day and age White men get followed by police and in stores. White men have people lock car doors and clutch purses.

Unless you know for sure both sides of the story it is racist for Obama to make assumptions.

Hey I trust in spell check to much, sue me.

You meant, "too much".

@ Tiassa,

Maybe up in the Great Northland, you've so oversolved your race problems as to create new ones in which white people are victims enslaved by institutions that legally only regard them as sixty percent human.

If people regard Blacks as 60% human then how is a black man running your country. I think you can cry a river over how rights are forsaken by the minorities, but that ship sailed long ago. I managed a company owned by a Pakistan Immigrant where many workers could only speak Sri Lankan. There were a dozen cultures under that roof and I don't think anybody thought less of anybody else. Maybe we are more enlightened in Toronto.

http://www.torontolife.com/informer/features/2013/02/12/mixie-me/

46% of our population is Foreign born, and that does not include the ethnic groups that were born here. Compare that to NYC at 28%.

I am sure racism exists everywhere, but the entire point of my comment is that Obama does not know that White men also experience injustices at the hands of Police. You are discussing racial profiling. My old Engineering Firm was 90% Chinese. My wife is Chinese. My kids are mixed.

I don't have a racist bone in my body, but think some blame race more than they should, especially when they do not know the other shoe.

Obama clearly made a statement about racial profiling, and yet he had no idea if he would have had the same experiences as a white person.. That is fact. Anybody that cannot understand that fact is simply lacking brain cells.

 

[ElectricFetus]

@ Electric Fetus,

I know word twisting is popular here, but my main point is that a black man has no idea what a white man might experience. I am saying in this day and age White men get followed by police and in stores. White men have people lock car doors and clutch purses.

Unless you know for sure both sides of the story it is racist for Obama to make assumptions.

I'm pretty sure this happens less often for white men than for black men, for crimes like the ones I specified the statistics are undeniable that the police watch black people much MUCH more carefully than whites and that the judicial system practically gets orgasms imprisoning blacks for crimes that the system far more often let whites off with.

Want to see actual video proof of how racist our society still is, watch "What would you do?"

 

[milkweed]

Want to see actual video proof of how racist our society still is, watch "What would you do?"

They state in the video the car was placed in a white neighborhood. So wheres the comparison with a black neighborhood and white kids tearing up a car?

Didnt want to reveal the odds a group of white kids in a black neighborhood would trigger the same reaction and negate their racism story?

 

[Tiassa]

I should also note that the one-drop rule is still in effect

If people regard Blacks as 60% human then how is a black man running your country.

Generally speaking, it is a good idea to be informed about the subjects on which you opine. Quite clearly, however, that's not happening here.

We're still paying off the societal debts accrued by the three-fifths rule, and there are some in this country trying to create its effect in elections. (Such as when Virginia Republicans recently tried to rearrange the state's presidential electoral scheme so that a Democrat winning fifty-one percent of the vote—i.e., the statistical winner—would only receive thirty percent of the state's electoral votes.)

I do, however, have an ethical objection to your argument:

I think you can cry a river over how rights are forsaken by the minorities, but that ship sailed long ago. I managed a company owned by a Pakistan Immigrant where many workers could only speak Sri Lankan. There were a dozen cultures under that roof and I don't think anybody thought less of anybody else. Maybe we are more enlightened in Toronto.

To the one, nothing is ever that perfect, but your point about Canada is taken. Indeed, compared to places like Florida, Louisiana, Kentucky, Indiana, Colorado, the Carolinas, Mississippi, &c., there is no question that Canada is generally better off in questions of diversity.

However, your argument does seem more a boast about Canada, which is fine. But as you tell us about the wonderful diversity in Canada, you need to realize that it is also irrelevant to your argument in this thread. We're talking about the United States of America, here. You might as well say marital rape isn't a problem in India by pointing to the Indian population in British Columbia.

How did a black man get elected in the United States? Well, he was a Democrat, running after the debacle of the Bush years. The Republican he ran against advocated more of the same as Bush, with the twist of some escalation. He also selected one of the most dangerous vice presidential candidates he could have. And then he started saying stupid things, like someone making five million dollars a year is "middle class". It was the proverbial perfect storm. And if you paid any attention to that campaign, you would have seen American racism on full display. And if you watched what happened next, you would have seen American racism on full display. And that racism is still apparent. Did you hear about Arizona this week?

Meanwhile, the statistical data disputes your question. In the nineties, the federal crack cocaine standard was so lopsided in its application that we got to a point where white people were 65% of the crack users, they constituted about a tenth of a percent of the people prosecuted. What happened in Tulia never would have happened without racism. And you can see the long-term trend in all sorts of prosecutions and sentences. Indeed, racism is very possibly what will bring down capital punishment in the United States.

I don't have a racist bone in my body ....

I would call bullshit based on your posts in this thread. (Also, a hint: Polishing one's own knob with statements like, "I don't have a racist bone in my body", is generally indicative, like the young woman from Arizona who told a reporter that Obama needs to go back to where he came from, and then added, "I am not racist. I am part Indian.")

Obama clearly made a statement about racial profiling, and yet he had no idea if he would have had the same experiences as a white person.. That is fact. Anybody that cannot understand that fact is simply lacking brain cells.

It's an accurate statement. Of course, if one is ignorant of what is happening in the U.S., I suppose it is understandable why one would get so upset about it.

 

[kwhilborn]

@ Tiassa,

I will keep this short so my point is understood.

Obama stated black men are persecuted by racial profiling when:
a) They shop in stores.
b) They walk towards people locking doors in parked cars.
c) They get on an elevator and woman clutches a purse.
d) Police follow them.

Now. Put yourself in the shoes of the people allegedly discriminating in the above statements.

a) would you only (or mostly) follow blacks if you were store security?
b) would you lock your door only if a black man approached (or any man)? (Note: I saw a woman lock her door when a white blind man walked into her car)
c) Would you clutch your purse tighter if a black man moved beside you or any man?
d) Would you follow Black drivers more if you were a police officer?

Now add another test...
How would you perceive the above incidents if you were both a black and a white man.

A) would you view it racial, or B) would you view it as normal.

That perception is important.

If someone whore a hoodie (is that spelled right), and walked in my store with their face mostly covered I would be eyeing them whether they were black, white, red, yellow, or green. If a Black man or white man came into my store wearing Armani and a Rolex I would smile at them and wish them a happy day.

Obama accused police, Store detectives, people in cars, and women clutching purses of being racist, when I honestly believe white people receive the same treatment. Obama has NO possible way of knowing what occurs to white men. I say it is this lack of facts that make his statement irresponsible and racist in itself.

p.s. I like Obama, but feel he did not think that through.

Maybe you are just a bunch of racists down there, but where I'm from racial profiling is something people blame things on, but I think is less in real life because of perception.

 

[Tiassa]

Uninformed Opinions Are, After All, Still Opinions

Now. Put yourself in the shoes of the people allegedly discriminating in the above statements.

a) would you only (or mostly) follow blacks if you were store security?
b) would you lock your door only if a black man approached (or any man)? (Note: I saw a woman lock her door when a white blind man walked into her car)
c) Would you clutch your purse tighter if a black man moved beside you or any man?
d) Would you follow Black drivers more if you were a police officer?

No, no, no, and no.

I require actual, genuine signs of threat. Dark skin, to me, is not an inherent indicator of criminality.

Now add another test...
How would you perceive the above incidents if you were both a black and a white man.

A) would you view it racial, or B) would you view it as normal.

Do you mean racially mixed, or am I supposed to project for both skin colors?

Racially mixed is still subject to the one-drop rule insofar as is still in force; the last time it came before the courts, it was upheld. And that was, what, twenty-five years ago?

The one-drop rule has started breaking in recent years, though; some who oppose President Obama have argued that we have not elected a black president.

If someone whore a hoodie (is that spelled right), and walked in my store with their face mostly covered I would be eyeing them whether they were black, white, red, yellow, or green. If a Black man or white man came into my store wearing Armani and a Rolex I would smile at them and wish them a happy day.

Yes, it's spelled right, and, as an aside, I loathe the term because before it came to describe a shirt with a hood, the term referred (at least in my circles) to a piercing of the clitoral hood for decorative purposes—a.k.a. a "clit ring".

Moving on, though, here's a question for you:

• Imagine yourself a black woman for a moment. One day, you and a coworker go shopping. As you attempt to enter a store, you find the doors are locked, which seems odd, since the place appears to be open and the clerks are refusing to let you enter. So you wander a short distance away and try to call the store. While you're doing that, you watch the clerk come to the door and allow two white women to enter the store. When you finally reach someone in the store organization, you're told that they're locking you out because they were recently robbed by two black people.

Now here's the twist: It's the late 1990s, and you are Oprah Winfrey, one of the most recognizable faces in America.​

So, if the robbers had been white, would the store clerks have refused to admit white people?

No. It just doesn't work that way. Maybe if the shop owner was black, undereducated, and working in a poor section of town, you might be able to find an example.

Obama accused police, Store detectives, people in cars, and women clutching purses of being racist, when I honestly believe white people receive the same treatment.

You can honestly believe that all you want. But you're also welcome to come try to live that belief in the States.

Maybe you are just a bunch of racists down there, but where I'm from racial profiling is something people blame things on, but I think is less in real life because of perception.

Well, yes, in case you hadn't noticed, we have a very large, ongoing discussion of racism going on down here. And one of the big reasons we're having this discussion is because of profiling.

Your opinion is your opinion. That it is atrociously uninformed is what it is.

 

[ElectricFetus]

They state in the video the car was placed in a white neighborhood. So wheres the comparison with a black neighborhood and white kids tearing up a car?

Are you seriously suggesting that had a car filled with sleeping white people been placed in a black neighbourhood, they would start calling the cops??? Are you suggesting that black people oppress white people as much as white people oppress black people? Mind you there are many other videos by WWYD and scenarios they do that demonstrate racism in the USA.

 

[kwhilborn]

@ Tiassa,

Racism is racism. If Obama makes a racist comment it is still a racist comment. I am over forty years of age and well educated and have never heard of the One Drop Rule, and my own Children have a few drops from across the globe. Your post was the first I had heard it.

I went grocery shopping and the doors were locked because it had just been robbed (they were black in this case, but not part of argument). If I had been black or mixed perhaps I would view it as the store employees did not like my colour (<< Canadian spelling btw).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHiLwf90h9I
Above video. Now to get at least 50% do they turn away better qualified people who are not a minority? This does happen, and in some instances here reverse racism is problematic although you may doubt that from your perspective.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASRRNnBNUYQ

Forget race. Toronto holds the largest Gay Pride Parade in North America and were among first to legalize gay marriages. If we are so accepting of gays, then any culture is welcome.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0n1SSCtSHaU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEN3OsrHNDk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyB-fHuiMn0

Cultures mix very well. It's a shame you have no idea how it can be unless you visit places like Toronto. Mixed marriages would not even earn a sideways glance here.

A Muslim Woman can go to Walmart by herself wearing a Burka outfit and not get a lot of second glances.

http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/sunnews/canada/archives/2012/07/20120724-173555.html
In above article a Boy was served alcohol by dressing in a Burka. It is a controversial Attire and deals with women's rights and the masking that can be used in crime. It is still a common sight and you should expect to see at least several Burkas on your local trip to the mall.

 

[Tiassa]

A Whole Lotta Somethin' Goin' On

I am over forty years of age and well educated and have never heard of the One Drop Rule, and my own Children have a few drops from across the globe. Your post was the first I had heard it.

Then you are grotesquely uninformed.

Strangely, when such rules were upheld in 1896, the lone dissenter on the Supreme Court, the one justice who knew this wasn't going to work, was a former slave owner.

Plessy v. Ferguson is one of the most infamous Supreme Court decisions in the history of our nation. It might well be the crown jewel. The decision stood for fifty-eight years until it was rightly undone by Brown v. Board of Education.

While the Plessy decision is best known for its establishment of the "separate but equal" segregationist doctrine as law, it inherently upheld the one-drop rule, as Homer Plessy was only one-eighth black.

In 1985, the state of Louisiana upheld the one-drop rule. Jane Doe v. State of Louisiana is a really screwed up decision, as it notes the one thirty-second standard of Louisiana statute was struck down two years prior. However, the court allowed a one-drop designation of "colored", established well before the law was struck, to stand; the opinion of the court found insufficient evidence that the racial designation was incorrect.

It's also a convoluted case in which the descendents of the allegedly wronged people were trying to set the records straight; the court refused.

See also, "Black Is the New (and Old) Black" (#3089497/62) in the the racial tensions thread.

Suffice to say, it is presently true in the United Statess that a white mother can have a black child, but a black mother cannot have a white child.

Welcome to the United States of America. There's a lot goin' on down here. Quite clearly, more than you're aware of.

 

[milkweed]

Are you seriously suggesting that had a car filled with sleeping white people been placed in a black neighbourhood, they would start calling the cops??? Are you suggesting that black people oppress white people as much as white people oppress black people? Mind you there are many other videos by WWYD and scenarios they do that demonstrate racism in the USA.

We'll never know because the show didnt give us that view did they? And they didnt put a group of asian or mexican kids up to a car stunt like that either did they, let alone in a black, or hispanic or asian community to see a balanced comparison.

 

[iceaura]

- - . Maybe we are more enlightened in Toronto.

Maybe you are. But Toronto was the town, back a few years now, that a friend of mine decided not to move to because the first neighborhood she checked out that she could afford featured a local gang of thugs called "Paki bashers", a term also applied to their signature red boots (something like a sleeveless undershirt is called a "wife-beater").

Essentially, anyone who tries to argue that black and white people are not treated differently in the US public arena according to their race, with black people being treated significantly and consistently worse in several well known ways, is either ignorant or bigoted.

 

[kwhilborn]

@ Iceaura,

I had never heard that term before "Paki Basher" and apparently it is a British term. I suppose anything is possible, but I highly doubt that was or is true. Perhaps back in 1927 or some absurd length of time ago. The only red footwear I have heard of are the red shoes popularized by Justin Bieber.

Pakistan was created to be a Muslim country. Toronto has the highest concentration of Muslims than any city in North America, so perhaps there is less fear of "bashers" than you would think.

If I heard there were Paki Bashers down the road, I would think there was some kind of Muslim party going on (other definition of bash).

http://www.torontomuslims.com/

5% of all the Greater Toronto Area (GTA) population is Muslim, making GTA the highest concentration of Muslims in any city in North America.[4]

from
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Canada

That means (5%) one in twenty Toronto residents are Muslim with a likely heritage of Pakistan. Our Police force hires 50% minorities.

Anybody thinking to pick on any nationality based on Ethnicity would likely be quickly outnumbered or ostracized. It may seem odd but we function well living and working side by side.

With One and Twenty households being Muslim, I would think any neighborhood that had a "thug" (I also know no thugs) would find them outnumbered in their own neighborhoods.

Racism and reverse racism does exist. People leaving Toronto must have their reasons and stories to tell.

I have never met anybody that was attacked (to my knowledge) in Toronto for Ethnicity. In a city with over 5 million people there are always stories, but not as many race crimes (or gay crimes), as you seem to think.

THIS IS MORE TORONTO.... NOT HOW ABOVE POSTER DESCRIBED


TRY TO COUNT HOW MANY CULTURES YOU RECOGNIZE

[video=youtube;DRGY7y1n1cM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRGY7y1n1cM[/video]



NOBODY HERE CARES ABOUT RACE. IT MAY SEEM WEIRD TO YOU, BUT LOOK AND SEE. THAT IS HOW IT IS EVERYWHERE.

@ Tiassa,
This one drop rule is also bound to alter statistics. If I said two thirds of Police Car Stops were against Minorities, then I would also be including "slightly tan" type immigrants like Hawaiian/Filipino/etc. Would this be an accurate portrayal in your eyes?

http://www.fifa.com/newscentre/news/newsid=548955/index.html