Genetic engineering in food

Hercules Rockefeller said:
:bugeye:
Who says?
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Thats what genetic engineering is about! It also ususally leads to loss of diversity. An exceptional case would be dogs and any other product that we are actually engineering (breeding) FOR diversity
 
Medicine Woman...you have been really kind since i got here, telling me how you admire my contributions etc, which i am really grateful for....errrr, then you seem to go and poil it. i am offended in your suggestion that genetic engineering is creating people like me--with 'hormonal imabalance'--cause that is what you are implying. i agree with you about the size of cows. have you ever seen a natural sized cow. it blows you away how bulky unnatrual bred ones are, it really does!....but like i said, of course you are free to say what the hell you wanna. but i also am free to tell you i dont like it

regarding the poster who asks 'so what is natrual' and organic farmers use loopholes to sell not to organic food. well, as far as i'm aware the organic people who monitor organic foods are very strict

also, as i tried to show with the link i gave of Vandana Shiva, that its not just a CASe of whether GM food is bad for our health etc--though that's important, it is also the politcal potential of further oppression--'Biopiracy" she terms it--which seeks to PATENT Nature. i encourage you to look further afioled as to how this corrutopn is spreading. where big pharma is going to Indigenous peoples land and stealing their plants so as to patent drugs to make big $ profit. the fukin god of these times!
 
John Connellan said:
Thats what genetic engineering is about! It also ususally leads to loss of diversity.
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Is it? :confused:

Let’s talk specifics…..

I have genetically engineered about a dozen lines of zebrafish in the course of my research. Some express fluorescent proteins in various neuronal cell types. Some have cell surface receptors under inducible control. I keep them in our aquarium facility attached to the animal house. How has the biodiversity of the planet been reduced?

How does inserting a pesticide resistance gene into a strain of maize reduce the biodiversity of the planet?
 
Duendy said:

regarding the poster who asks 'so what is natrual' and organic farmers use loopholes to sell not to organic food. well, as far as i'm aware the organic people who monitor organic foods are very strict
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The "what is natural'' comment was more of a thought exercise, I wasn't looking for an answer. And I was not just musing about organics laws and practices, my family is in the business. Regardless of how much you admire the standards, they actually are quite lax by the standards of the rest of the industrialized world, and by the standards of many small farmers in America.

The "MoreGanic" movement is one here in the U.S. which hopes to open peoples eyes to scam of still using some crappy agricultural practices but then getting to charge 2x the $ for the product that some huge agri-business firms are using.
 
Hercules Rockefeller said:
How does inserting a pesticide resistance gene into a strain of maize reduce the biodiversity of the planet?
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Because the maize with the pesticide resistant gene will outcompete the other strains of maize in the short-term. In the long term, a virus will develop which will wipe out those strains with this gene (side effect of the gene). the whole world will be in dire straits.
 
The thing that is starting to happen a lot which is REALLY crappy for non-GM using farmers is simple that *pollen & seed travel* - contaminating their crops with GM influences they do not want. And then, some of these company's like Monsanto are *suing* these farmers for having traces of their GM indicators in their food! Its pretty sick.
 
In the long term, a virus will develop which will wipe out those strains with this gene (side effect of the gene). the whole world will be in dire straits.
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How do you propose this will happen?
 
Well, diversity in genetics is what protects a species as a whole from disease - so it makes sense that if single GM Uber-Strains of plants take over, that they will be more vulnerable to future disease mutations.
 
What I'm asking, is how this variety will be more susceptible to a viral infection than another, specifically, since he is saying that a viral infection is a side-effect of the gene.
 
Yeah, I would disagree that viral infection is a direct side-effect of gene alteration. Certainly some alterations could do that, but to automatically assume they all would doesn't make sense either. But decreased diversity in a species can certainly make the entire species as a whole more suseptible to viruses/bacteria/climate-shifts and etc.
 
let us consider the ecological damage and health problems caused by purple lucite, killer bees and kane toads.
 
Certainly some alterations could do that, but to automatically assume they all would doesn't make sense either.
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Name one, and explain how. Be as technical as you possibly can. As I think of this more, I can think of a few ways it may be possible, but I want to hear your thoughts.

WellCooked, they are all quite destructive to an area's ecosystem, correct?
 
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yes and I don't see any modern genetic manipulation in use here. Conventional agriculture consisting of selective breeding and hybriding has done great damage before. GM is capable of causing all the same problems that we have caused and seen with conventional agriculture, but with GM foods there is the option of making them safer even beneficial to the environment and our health. We can engineer plants and animals that cannot survive or breed in the wild, thus prevent problems like the above mention horrible accidents of conventional agriculture. We can engineer plants that are healthier and more nutritious: right now millions around the world die from malnutrition a year, not just starving but from a lack of getting the need vitamins. More eco-friendly foods, needing less herbicides, pesticides and fertilizers. All that is required is well placed and enforced regulations.

The saying I love: Genetic engineering is about correcting god's horrible horrible mistakes!
 
Name one, and explain how. Be as technical as you possibly can. As I think of this more, I can think of a few ways it may be possible, but I want to hear your thoughts.
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My, my - very specific instructions/demands! Am I getting paid? :cool:

Well, I'm not a Genetic scientist - however I've heard it said by Biologists, MD's and such that biological systems are so complicated that to us it almost seems like random/chaotic results happen from simple/minor changes/inputs in a biological system (any plant, animal, bacteria - etc). Though there is certainly a precise system behind it all, its often far too complicated for us to do anything but make general predictions.

But its easy to imagine how strengthening one trait could make something more suceptible to other issues. Say that you make the roots bigger and sturdier so that it can resist a virus/bacteria/toxin that capitalizes on smaller weaker roots . . . but then the increased mass of the roots demands a higher rate of energy consumption from the plant (water, minerals and sunlight) which then brings in a higher rate of some other virus/bacteria/toxin so that the plants defense against *that* problem are overcome. So then the GM engineers strengthen that weakness . . . requiring then other changes be made to compensate for that change . . . and so on.

The actual potential complexities leave that in the dust, that was just off the top 'o my head.
 
John Connellan said:
No gentically modified roses smell more like roses than perfume. In fact, they smell identical to roses.
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Why then we hesitate/oppose in genetically modify ourselves & our future children--Clone is an identical to us but still not same as will be without mind. :confused:
 
Idle Mind said:
What I'm asking, is how this variety will be more susceptible to a viral infection than another, specifically, since he is saying that a viral infection is a side-effect of the gene.
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I am saying it can be. To give an example.
 
Kumar said:
Why then we hesitate/oppose in genetically modify ourselves & our future children--Clone is an identical to us but still not same as will be without mind. :confused:
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The same way we are allowed to kill vegetables and even some animals but we are not allowed to kill other humans.

Humans are different. Humans are special.
 
John Connellan said:
The same way we are allowed to kill vegetables and even some animals but we are not allowed to kill other humans.

Humans are different. Humans are special.
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Nice, it means: It has killing effect. :)
 
John Connellan said:
Because the maize with the pesticide resistant gene will outcompete the other strains of maize in the short-term.
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Only in the specific fields where it is planted and where the pesticide is sprayed. That's the whole point. But outside of that field where the selective pressure of the pesticide is absent, the GE maize will be no more or less fit than any other strain of maize. It won't out-compete anything. In fact, as a rule, genetically engineered organisms are often <B><I>less fit</I></B> than their wild-type counterparts.

John Connellan said:
In the long term, a virus will develop which will wipe out those strains with this gene (side effect of the gene).
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That’s pure science fiction with no scientific basis.

John Connellan said:
the whole world will be in dire straits.
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:rolleyes: We’re all doomed!!!!! That’s exactly the sort of scaremongering that needs to be countered by reason and education.
 
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