Friendly Challenge to Atheists
- Thread starter c20H25N3o
- Start date
stretched said:
The words of John
Revelations Chapter 1 vs 8-11 - Holy Bible of The Christian Faith
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.
I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,
Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.
peace
c20
melodicbard
Registered Senior Member
c20,
The evolution theory offers a incremental development of seeds.
If I ask you the origin of seeds, your answer will probably be "God created it".
So, can you explain your view on how God created it in full details?
The evolution theory offers a incremental development of seeds.
If I ask you the origin of seeds, your answer will probably be "God created it".
So, can you explain your view on how God created it in full details?
melodicbard
Registered Senior Member
c20,
No, you should need a more concrete explanation for others and YOURSELF.
You can explain that God guided the evolution path, then this explanation is at least plausible and the science-oriented community can stop bugging you.
You can say you believe in Genesis. So, at which stage (day) were seeds created?
From what material? Did they just come into existence and suddenly appeared out of thin air? Is it like you turn on the TV and the world scene immediately came into existence?
When you are challeging others, better be equipped with an convincing answer.
No, you should need a more concrete explanation for others and YOURSELF.
You can explain that God guided the evolution path, then this explanation is at least plausible and the science-oriented community can stop bugging you.
You can say you believe in Genesis. So, at which stage (day) were seeds created?
From what material? Did they just come into existence and suddenly appeared out of thin air? Is it like you turn on the TV and the world scene immediately came into existence?
When you are challeging others, better be equipped with an convincing answer.
melodicbard said:
I can only answer with the faith I have. I am not particulary interested in how things were created, just who created them. The Creator seems to be much more worthwhile to seek answers from than the creation itself given that we die.
So I asked him how it was made and He said "I made them for you. This is sufficient for you."
I cannot given you anymore than that.
peace
c20
melodicbard
Registered Senior Member
At the beginning, there was a giant known as Pan gu. After his death, his eyes became the sun and the moon, his flesh became the land and his blood seas and rivers, his hair the plants and seeds.
I am afraid I have no other explanation.
Do you consider I pass your challenge or not?
I am afraid I have no other explanation.
Do you consider I pass your challenge or not?
melodicbard said:
You are saying that these things derived their existence from God. I agree. The bit I would perhaps challenge is the death of God. God would need to be eternal and all-powerful in order to grant eternal life to other living beings.
You see if God exists and we exist, we have a battle of wills given that we know we cannot prevent out own deaths. We should be like baby birds crying out to their mother. Our deaths mock us. We should stand up for our rights and demand eternal life. The thing is that if we did live forever in our current state, we would always have our own battle of wills, refusing to submit to one another especially given that we are now immortal in this hypothetical situation.
If we are bold before God on an individual basis and submit to him and ask Him for eternal life then we all find ourselves on an even footing. There can be no more battle of wills because we all have to give up our personal sovreignty and humbly ask for life eternal from the One who can grant it. This is the only way to live in peace with eachother forever. This was Jesus' message. It's a narrow gate but it is open. God wants us to ask but we just keep going our own way to our deaths and if you dont ask you dont get.
The thing is that when you ask Him, you have to believe "It is done" and the only way you can know if that is true is by looking at the life, death and ressurection of Jesus Christ from the Bible. If you read the bible with faith and believe that it is what it is, the mysteries of Christ become quite apparent. This is why it is written "For those who have ears to hear..." in other words, if you are prepared to submit to God, He is instantly faithful to you and you are saved. The blood of Jesus poured out was the final covenant between God and man. "This is how much I love you, just so you know." - this was what the blood of Jesus said. The blood is the covenant. All man has to do is claim that blood and "It is done".
peace
c20
peace
c20
melodicbard
Registered Senior Member
Well, I respect your belief but this simply is not an adequate answer to your posed challenge (at least for many atheists). Also, I don't see how Jesus came into the picture for the creation of seeds. If I believe Genesis, Genesis accounts for the existence of seeds. Jesus? Final Covenant? I am really confused, I am just looking for an answer for the existence of seeds.
Seeds came to be because if they wouldn't have, there'd be no trees. Since there are trees, we can infer that once the requirement of survival found its way into our universe in the most simple form like bacteria, it couldn't have survived without offspring. Errors in those offspring found themselves both more fit to survive and less. Those that were less, died. Those that were more, didn't and went on to do it again.
In essence, the need for survival can be viewed as a desire to stop time, or to project this moment onto all of time. IMO, that indicates that survival itself is actually indicative of conditions with our physical dimensionality creating a means by which forces from higher dimensionality interface with them.
Bah, it's hard to explain.
In essence, the need for survival can be viewed as a desire to stop time, or to project this moment onto all of time. IMO, that indicates that survival itself is actually indicative of conditions with our physical dimensionality creating a means by which forces from higher dimensionality interface with them.
Bah, it's hard to explain.
c20H25N3o said:
C2O have you ever read the true hebrew translations of the old testament, or at least tried to really understand what it is saying? Most of the things that God created were actually metaphors in the Hebrew language....for instance Adam, in hebrew translates closest to the word 'dust', and Eve means 'living' which could change the interpretation of the creation story. There are many examples of this, so you may want to do your research, and you may find that the bible actually does leave a lot of room for evolution to make sense, even the in scripture. Since your faith is based on the scripture of the old and new testament, maybe you should actually study it the way it was meant to be studied: in Hebrew.
I would also reccoment reading some modern sources on evolutionary theory. If you want an easy read check out "A brief history of nearly everything" by Bill Bryson....but if you want a little more depth, just go look at the Biology section in your local Barnes and Nobel.
What? You make no sense. If you want to base faith on a book, you have to understand what the book truly means, and in order to do that, you must go to the original translation.....thats common sense. I am truly sorry that you are so ignorant in your King James or NIV translation.....open your eyes a bit, it may cure the blindness.
Faith is not rational. It's practical. One's circumstance decrees the requirements of practicality. For many people, the notion of god is quite practical. I believe the topic poster's intent was to communicate that his faith is indepedent of the continued existence of scripture.