Free speech, personal responsibility, respect for others, and general conduct

A

Adam

§Þ@ç€ MØnk€¥
Registered Senior Member
For the past few months, it seems to me, the conduct of sciforums users has been degrading. Language has become more vulgar by the week. Personal insults have grown more numerous, as have pointless threads, while the information and news content has been dwindling. Old posters as well as new have been resorting to such language as "go fuck yourself", "you're a bigot!", and worse.

While I support the idea of freedom of speech, I also believe that to warrant such freedom we must all keep in mind that the very notion of free speech is part of what we call "civilised society". Note the word "civilised". In part, civilisation means we bear soem respect for the sensibilities of others. Freedom of speech should never be regulated or moderated by governing authorities such as governments. However, it should be governed by our own standards. To lack those standards regarding civilised behaviour is to be uncivilised. Again, this applies to many old and new posters here.

To me, personally, the more civilised someone is, the more valuable they are to me and to the species in general. The more uncivilised you are, the less I care. To me, civilised people are better than uncivilised people. (And to those who wish to go on a rant about me disliking certain cultures or some such garbage, well, I am referring only to behaviour, not any group's level of technology.)

Orthogonal requested we all behave as adults, and I could quote dozens of instances of people doing otherwise in just the last week. Bebelina requested the same today, and was insulted for it. Well, now I'm also requesting the same. You could, of course, ignore the ideas of a fellow member of your society, which is basically an anti-social or anti-human act. Or you could be civilised and think about it.
 
Fuck you.



j/k



P.S: Bebelina was insulted for telling others what to do, not for recommending civility.
 
my solution->
every new member is monitored by 1 or 2 other senior members for 1 or 2 months. If he fails the tolerance criteria or is oserved as a troll , he is to be deleted.
 
I could not agree more, Adam. It seems that the very things we are ticked off the most about are the things we do to other people done to us...
 
Yes, me too. Unfortunately, as we see above, the persons that need this advice will not care.
 
you should make a "tolerance pact" that could be signed:p :rolleyes:

anywayz I think that if we imply some drastic measures it will become only worse. There has to be another solution to baning (except for trolls of course).
 
I don't really care. I don't get bothered by personal insults or foul languages. (as long as they are not aimed at me :D)

Sometimes people get bored. Getting into a flame war and find clever ways to insult another person can be intellectually stimulating and sometimes even comical for observers. If people want to participate in flame wars, just let them have it.

I think flame wars are really interesting. When two more more people step into the arena, some people would try to break up the fight but not me. I would stand outside and yell "fight, fight, fight, fight, fight, fight.......... :D If there are deaths and injuries, that is even better.
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okay. I hope you guys can seperate jokes from....well... jokes.
 
I don't care about the insults. I'm only worried about the overall intelectual debate level at sciforums
 
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How is the debate level harmed?

All:

I've heard a lot of "sciforums is going down the tubes" comments, but no substantiation. Now this is a rather large forum. Flamewars (and we haven't had any of those since, sheesh, Mallory Knox) are inevitable.

We have a few members with certain, fixations, on other posters. We have a few threads that have degenerated. We have dozens of instances of profanity. We have a few instances of extremely witty insults being used. And now we have an entire thread dedicated (with the exception of Joeman) to AOL-posting.

Big deal. It's the freaking internet, people, get a life!

I mean this is ridiculous. How do you get along in the mundane world if you burst into displays of hysterics over being told to "fuck off"?

They are just little words on your computer screen, they cannot harm you.

Frankly, I've lost a lot of respect for a lot of you over this sort of thing.

I don't care whether my swearing or flames make me look less intelligent. Anyone who would base their judgement of me on that ground is not worthy of my respect - and in the end, the only thing that matters is whether somone is worthy of my respect, not whether I am worthy of theirs.

As Nietzsche said:

You may note that I do not care to see rudeness undervalued; it is by far the most humane form of contradiction, and, amid modern effeminacy, it is one of our first virtues.
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As with flaming, I think Freddy would agree: Grow some balls, for pete's sake!

Edit to add Nietzsche. :)
 
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I think people have a high need to express their emotions and so uncivility should be expected and possibly encouraged...

BUT...

I think it gets out of hand sometimes, like Adam said-- "go fuck yourself", "you're a bigot!", etc. Such things may come from necessary expressions of emotions, but such emotions could be expressed in a more "mature" manner.
 
Also, another good basic rule is:

Criticize the idea and not the person.
 
I think people should ask themselves why, if "it's the freaking Internet, people", certain individuals choose this site, of all the others. Could it be something about "getting a life"? Maybe some of us do not wish to wade through reams of "fuck you", "fuck you back" exchanges. Maybe that's why we prefer to be on this particular forum.

And Xev, at a risk of sounding like I have a fixation on you (which I don't think I do, though I like your sense of humor): if the lesser minds can't see your sarcasm for what it is and instead choose to be hurt and offended, then wouldn't Nietzsche recommend that you cease and desist with them so as not to hurt those weaker than yourself? Just a thought.
 
Overdoze:

I was referring to the Tiassa/Adam debacle.

I think people should ask themselves why, if "it's the freaking Internet, people", certain individuals choose this site, of all the others. Could it be something about "getting a life"? Maybe some of us do not wish to wade through riffs of "fuck you", "fuck you back" exchanges. Maybe that's why we prefer to be on this particular forum
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General level of intellect. I'm not exactly sure how that invalidates my point.

Certainly if the entire board looked like free thoughts did during Mallory Knox's invasion, there would be a problem. But I honestly don't see anything like that.

This place is mild.

As for what Nietzsche would do, I agree but will not change my conduct for the majority. I have tempered my conduct towards some such as Truthseeker - I shall do it for Bebelina.

"When the exceptional human being treats the mediocre more tenderly than himself and his peers, this is not mere courtesy of the heart – it is simply his duty."
 
Xev, I don't care for the words. To get me insulted?!!! You'll really need much.
In fact I've never felt insulted...maybe only angry...I don't really care what others think.
About the level-> well you see, if I write a detailed response and the response I get is-> that is all complete BS or you'll burn in the lake of fire for this- that annoys me. It's unproductive debating/discussion.
that is what I care about-> productive and quality discussion...not the response- you are wrong and are a complete moron to think so....please......... the response could be-> I don't agree with you fucking asshole because....

get the idea.
 
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Agreed, and a standard to which I adhere - most of the time, unless teasing Bebelina. ;)

Which I will stop now. It is apparently my duty.
 
From the movie version of Starship Troopers:
RASCZAK
You. Tell me the moral difference, if any, between the citizen and the civilian ?

JOHNNY
The difference lies in the field of civic virtue. A citizen accepts personal responsibility for the safety of the body politic, of which he is a member, defending it, if need be, with his life. The civilian does not.

RASCZAK
The exact words of the text. But do you understand it? Do you believe it ?

JOHNNY
Uh, I don't know.

RASCZAK
Of course you don't. I doubt if any of you here would recognize 'civic virtue' if it bit you in the ass.
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There's nothing wrong with insults or colorful language- it's just that we all have to remain professional in the things we choose to say and the responses we hope to get. This has more to do with intellectual content than anything else- if you really must talk about crap at Sciforums, you are in need of crap forum and not sciforums.

Take a trip to the religion archives, my friends (if you haven't already) and you will be blown away by the contrast between our squabbling, pretentious hellhole of a forum today.

Sciforums is, and should remain, a truly unique place, and if you want bland interent arguing, AOL should suit you fine.
 
It just comes down to courtesy. For me, courtesy comes with respect. If I respect a person I will honour their wishes. If not, I'm not changing my attitude for them.
 
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