Forced Faith? Forced Atheism? The Test!

[birch]

i just can't take most theists seriously. for people who say they talk to god and know it is real, they can't explain it even halfway well. there are lots of contrived personas that are attributed to it.

if they said they think it's some kindly spirit, then perhaps but then it could just be a part of themselves helping them. who knows..

the most i could get myself to even consider such a concept even minimally is whatever is the essence of life perhaps. i don't even necessarily see it as a creator either but possibly a source of life. i wouldn't view it with any sense of mundane human or physical attributes.

 

[EmptyForceOfChi]

i just can't take most theists seriously. for people who say they talk to god and know it is real, they can't explain it even halfway well. there are lots of contrived personas that are attributed to it.

if they said they think it's some kindly spirit, then perhaps but then it could just be a part of themselves helping them. who knows..

the most i could get myself to even consider such a concept even minimally is whatever is the essence of life perhaps. i don't even necessarily see it as a creator either but possibly a source of life. i wouldn't view it with any sense of mundane human or physical attributes.

Thats kind of funny you actualy are near enough quoting the Quran lol (not exactly but almost)


The Quran teaches that whatever you think god is "your wrong" god is nothing like any of you think he is nothing like any of his creations. it then goes on to say that humans can only imagine things they have experienced and seen first hand. and it says that nobody on earth has seen god first hand.

Anything you imagine about god is wrong and your understanding is purely limited to things you have experienced in the dunya (physical life) it is the source of all things and beyond any of your comprehensions.


Peace.

 

[birch]

Thats kind of funny you actualy are near enough quoting the Quran lol (not exactly but almost)


The Quran teaches that whatever you think god is "your wrong" god is nothing like any of you think he is nothing like any of his creations. it then goes on to say that humans can only imagine things they have experienced and seen first hand. and it says that nobody on earth has seen god first hand.

Anything you imagine about god is wrong and your understanding is purely limited to things you have experienced in the dunya (physical life) it is the source of all things and beyond any of your comprehensions.


Peace.

no, you are incorrect because the concept of god is based on an entity which i don't really believe in. i don't think this universe was even consciously created either and even if it was, i would probably not even associate god-like ultimate powers to it actually even so.

i also don't agree with a lot of what's in the quran or the bible either.

though i think that for some, it's the way they can understand or find meaning in life.

 

[EmptyForceOfChi]

no, you are incorrect because the concept of god is based on an entity which i don't really believe in. i don't think this universe was even consciously created either and even if it was, i would probably not even associate god-like ultimate powers to it actually even so.

i also don't agree with a lot of what's in the quran or the bible either.

though i think that for some, it's the way they can understand or find meaning in life.

Have you read the part of the Quran which speaks about god putting seals on peoples hearts and eyes?.

How he won't allow some people to believe even though he has given them knowledge of many other things, some people are given huge amounts of mathematical understanding yet they lack the comprehension to even undertand good and evil and where they come from?. or how somebody can understand philosophy to a high degree yet they lack basic commen sense.


You have seals on you and you don;t know they are even there. But if you ask god to actualy help you remove them and start to trust in the unseen he will start to unlock them one by one.


I used to try really hard and waste tons of my time trying to remove these seals and many of my muslim friends kept telling me no stop it you cant force them to believe. they kept telling me over and over "there is no compulsion in religion" and I just wouldnt stop trying to convert people. but i have finally stopped trying now I understand ther eis nothing I can do To make anyone believe.

That's when i realized i am actualy powerless and god is the one with all the power.

Peace.

 

[birch]

Have you read the part of the Quran which speaks about god putting seals on peoples hearts and eyes?.

How he won't allow some people to believe even though he has given them knowledge of many other things, some people are given huge amounts of mathematical understanding yet they lack the comprehension to even undertand good and evil and where they come from?. or how somebody can understand philosophy to a high degree yet they lack basic commen sense.


You have seals on you and you don;t know they are even there. But if you ask god to actualy help you remove them and start to trust in the unseen he will start to unlock them one by one.


I used to try really hard and waste tons of my time trying to remove these seals and many of my muslim friends kept telling me no stop it you cant force them to believe. they kept telling me over and over "there is no compulsion in religion" and I just wouldnt stop trying to convert people. but i have finally stopped trying now I understand ther eis nothing I can do To make anyone believe.

That's when i realized i am actualy powerless and god is the one with all the power.

Peace.

uh no, i don't believe there are actual seals.

as for not understanding, so do you and other theists have as much that is not understood or known as anyone else. now i think THAT is closer to the truth.

but not knowing everything is not the issue. it's about getting on with life with what we do know and with little discoveries along the way. k?

 

[EmptyForceOfChi]

uh no, i don't believe there are actual seals.

as for not understanding, so do you and other theists have as much that is not understood or known as anyone else. now i think THAT is closer to the truth.

but not knowing everything is not the issue. it's about getting on with life with what we do know and with little discoveries along the way. k?

Totaly there are billions of things in this universe alone that we have no clue about at all, the quran actualy hints at there being aliens in the universe and other beings he has created that we have no idea even exist.

I think I know nothing atall. the knowledge we have been given is just suitable for our life on earth, thats why god says to quit bothering yourself with useless info because our time here is so short we haven't got time to waste on pointless pondering about all the countless possible things he has created.

I think that theists know as much as atheists, lets face it whats the difference? a theist knows what's inside a book, and an Atheist can read the same book and know the same things only difference is one takes it as serious one takes it as mythology.

I know tons of mythology I still rea dup on greek mythology and other legends I study Sumarian tablets aswella lthough I can barely read them i need a translator. I can read some sanskrit too but a atheist can read all this junk aswell so i dont actualy know more than them i just take some things serious where they don't


We are all just humans no matter what we believe, but once you actualy take the quran seriously I think you do appreciate the actual wisdom inside it a bit more to heart and put it to practice.


peace.

 

[birch]

but once you actualy take the quran seriously I think you do appreciate the actual wisdom inside it a bit more to heart and put it to practice.

yes, that's about morality but remember about blindness is that it can be learned from experience as well as in many different texts or stories fiction and non-fiction. there can be some hidden truth or messages in any book. there is a plethora of knowlege out there from many sources and from many sources of inspiration to make one think or consider. sometimes conclusions are not even necessary. that's just a cop-out or self-delusion. the process of discovery is also the fun part.

if one is really open to learning the truth, they are not going to discount everything. that is why people who have faith in a religion who are also not open to different ideas or other knowledge can also be stunting their awareness or enlightenment. it's up to them.

 

[EmptyForceOfChi]

yes, that's about morality but remember about blindness is that it can be learned from experience as well as in many different texts or stories fiction and non-fiction. there can be some hidden truth or messages in any book.

if one is really open to learning the truth, they are not going to discount everything. that is why people who have faith in a religion who are also not open to different ideas or other knowledge can also be stunting their awareness or enlightenment. it's up to them.

A saying comes to mind I forgot where I heard it though.

"What's better than a young man's wisdom is an old mans experience"


I agree with you on the Faith in religion part, I have a faith in god not just a single religion although I do see the Quran as the purest form of abrahamic scripture we have today, I don't think the Torah is still in it's pure form, Genesis for one is annoying to read.

I guess I can't relate to those who were indoctrinated into a particular religion so it's best if i dont act like I know how it feels when I don't. I have faith in god not religion, religion acualy pisses me off more than anything.


Peace.

 

[birch]

A saying comes to mind I forgot where I heard it though.

"What's better than a young man's wisdom is an old mans experience"


I agree with you on the Faith in religion part, I have a faith in god not just a single religion although I do see the Quran as the purest form of abrahamic scripture we have today, I don't think the Torah is still in it's pure form, Genesis for one is annoying to read.

I guess I can't relate to those who were indoctrinated into a particular religion so it's best if i dont act like I know how it feels when I don't. I have faith in god not religion, religion acualy pisses me off more than anything.


Peace.

but i wasn't even talking just about old religious texts. time and information has not stopped. this is the blind spot. there are people living today that have things to say or insights to share in all manner of ways from fiction to non-fiction.

just go to borders or barnes and noble and read the vast variety of information and ideas that people have to share.

 

[EmptyForceOfChi]

but i wasn't even talking just about old religious texts. time and information has not stopped. this is the blind spot. there are people living today that have things to say or insights to share in all manner of ways from fiction to non-fiction.

just go to borders or barnes and noble and read the vast variety of information and ideas that people have to share.

Well yeah but I don't really see the novel ideas of fiction, think about it no matter what anybody comes up with they cant come up with anything that other people havent seen before somewhere int he universe.

I Have been writting books now for a couple of years, Ive almost finished my Fiction book, and No matter what I create or write it's just twisting reality, even when people "create" new worlds and new races they are not really new are they they are just slightly transformed already existing things in the universe. Like when somebody makes a new alien race theres nothing novel or new about any of it. they're just creatures with eyes on didfferent places, or different shaped bodies, even when you try to create a being made up of energy or a gas or a vapour it's not really your new idea you just took an element of the real universe and twisted it into a different form.


Look at all the fiction from Tolkein to King, they dont create anything new it's just things god already created copy pasted and re-arranged in some way shape or form, this is how I know humans can;t actualy create we just manipulate and pretend we are creators.


peace.

 

[birch]

Well yeah but I don't really see the novel ideas of fiction, think about it no matter what anybody comes up with they cant come up with anything that other people havent seen before somewhere int he universe.

I Have been writting books now for a couple of years, Ive almost finished my Fiction book, and No matter what I create or write it's just twisting reality, even when people "create" new worlds and new races they are not really new are they they are just slightly transformed already existing things in the universe. Like when somebody makes a new alien race theres nothing novel or new about any of it. they're just creatures with eyes on didfferent places, or different shaped bodies, even when you try to create a being made up of energy or a gas or a vapour it's not really your new idea you just took an element of the real universe and twisted it into a different form.


Look at all the fiction from Tolkein to King, they dont create anything new it's just things god already created copy pasted and re-arranged in some way shape or form, this is how I know humans can;t actualy create we just manipulate and pretend we are creators.


peace.

you have a really mundane view. just stick to your religious texts then which are also fiction btw. there is something about people who are attracted to fundamentalist religions that is so heavily fixed and narrow. it's like they refuse to let the light in. they need to believe they know the end result and it's all wrapped up before they can even consider it. i think that is very arrogant.

 

[EmptyForceOfChi]

you have a really mundane view. just stick to your religious texts then which are also fiction btw. there is something about people who are attracted to fundamentalist religions that is so heavily fixed and narrow. it's like they refuse to let the light in. they need to believe they know the end result and it's all wrapped up before they can even consider it. i think that is very weak.

Erm I guess you didn't like me telling you the truth about how humans have actualy never created a single novel thing even in all of our fiction novels.


Want to prove me wrong and show me one single thing humans have ever created that isnt just a ripp off of something else in the universe?

 

[birch]

Erm I guess you didn't like me telling you the truth about how humans have actualy never created a single novel thing even in all of our fiction novels.


Want to prove me wrong and show me one single thing humans have ever created that isnt just a ripp off of something else in the universe?

that is hardly a fair assessment. it's your attitude that sucks and you are disingenuous because you are high on the quran and it's not original either then considering others have had those same thoughts whilst someone decided to write it down.

i dont respect your dross view. it is really unfortunate that you do live up or down to the stereotype of a fundamentalist. what a waste of even giving you the benefit of the doubt.

 

[EmptyForceOfChi]

that is hardly a fair assessment. it's your attitude that sucks and you are disingenuous because you are high on the quran and it's not original either then considering others have had those same thoughts whilst someone decided to write it down.

i dont respect your dross view. it is really unfortunate that you do live up or down to the stereotype of a fundamentalist. what a waste of even giving you the benefit of the doubt.

Yeah im a hard liner islamic extreamist who wants Sharia law for the whole world, no wait the whole universe!.


Do you mind showing me a single new idea or creation that a human has ever thought up?. just 1 example is all I want 1 single novel creation a human has ever dreamt up.

 

[birch]

Do you mind showing me a single new idea or creation that a human has ever thought up?. just 1 example is all I want 1 single novel creation a human has ever dreamt up.

you are a typical fundamentalist asking insanely obvious requests you can look up yourself.

there are too many novel ideas or creations to list, you wacko.

what's even worse is your infatuation with the idea of a creator but your condescension of people. that is typical of most fundamentalists is their hidden arrogance and their identification with a supreme being. this is really awful because it's people who are responsible for helping you in life, not some god you put on a pedestal. you have disdain for people and their efforts for all the wrong reasons.

i find you quite disgusting now actually.

 

[EmptyForceOfChi]

you are a typical fundamentalist asking insanely obvious requests you can look up yourself.

there are too many novel ideas or creations to list, you wacko.

what's even worse is your infatuation with the idea of a creator but your condescension of people. that is typical of most fundamentalists is their hidden arrogance and their identification with a supreme being. this is really awful because it's people who are responsible for helping you in life, not some god you put on a pedestal. you have disdain for people and their efforts for all the wrong reasons.

i find you quite disgusting now actually.

I didn't say list them I said name 1, 1 single novel creation.


Can you give one example or not? im asking you to present an example are you going to do it or not. if there are so many novel creations that dont have a root or are not manipulated from an already existing creation then it wouldn't be hard for you to name 1 would it.


Just give me one novel creation from a human that isnt stolen from nature. and don't say something like a mode of transportation or a clock because those are not novel things they ar ejust modifications of animal transports or actual animals and cycles. like a clock measures time like a sund ial or like a orbit of a planet can be used like a clock, or an airplane s just a mechanical bird of sorts.

 

[EmptyForceOfChi]

Oh and I love the way you all use my thread to talk about nonesense and none of you have even taken the test. or are refusing to take the test simply because it actualy provesmy point that you have no control over being an atheist or a theist.

 

[birch]

I didn't say list them I said name 1, 1 single novel creation.


Can you give one example or not? im asking you to present an example are you going to do it or not. if there are so many novel creations that dont have a root or are not manipulated from an already existing creation then it wouldn't be hard for you to name 1 would it.


Just give me one novel creation from a human that isnt stolen from nature.

stolen from nature? that is your beef? you mean like a house being built from a chopped down tree?

so this is your problem with what? fiction? people?

tell me what is so original about the quran? what is so hard about speculation that you think is so amazing which all religious texts really are or imaginary speculations similar to mythology? what is in there that isn't also ripped off from nature or inspired in some way by our environment?

your logic is completely insane. is that what theists are? insane. is that you are testifying to?

 

[birch]

Oh and I love the way you all use my thread to talk about nonesense and none of you have even taken the test. or are refusing to take the test simply because it actualy provesmy point that you have no control over being an atheist or a theist.

are you sure you haven't been talking nonsense?

 

[EmptyForceOfChi]

stolen from nature? that is your beef? you mean like a house being built from a chopped down tree?

so this is your problem with what? fiction? people?

tell me what is so original about the quran? what is so hard about speculation that you think is so amazing which all religious texts really are or imaginary speculations similar to mythology? what is in there that isn't also ripped off from nature or inspired in some way by our environment?

your logic is completely insane. is that what theists are? insane. is that you are testifying to?

Chopping down bits of trees and building a home? you mean how a bird takes twigs and sticks and builds a nest? yep stolen from nature.



Present me something thats not stolen from nature. and im not saying i have anything thats not stolen from nature thats my whole point, everything you have is stolen from nature or borrowed from the already existing universe you cant create anything no matter what you think you can create you cant create.


You cant even imagine anything you have never seen before, close your eyes aant try to visualize something never seen before i bet you cant do it. all you can do is visualize colours and shapes and patterns and already existing objects and manipulate them.