Forbidden Love

S.A.M.

S.A.M.

uniquely dreadful
Valued Senior Member
At their home in Leipzig, Patrick Stuebing and Susan Karolewski are in the kitchen, playing with a young toddler.

They share a small flat in an east German tower block on the outskirts of the city. It looks like an ordinary family scene, but Patrick is Susan's brother and they are lovers.

Patrick, who is 30 years old, was adopted and, as a child, he lived in Potsdam.

He did not meet his mother and biological family until he was 23. He travelled to Leipzig with a friend in 2000, determined to make contact with his other relatives.

He met his sister Susan for the first time, and according to the couple, after their mother died, they fell in love.

Patrick and Susan have been living together for the last six years, and they now have four children.

All but one of the couple's children have been taken into care

Incest is a criminal offence in Germany. Patrick Stuebing has already served a two-year sentence for committing incest and there is another jail term looming if paragraph 173 of the legal code is not overturned.

The couple's lawyer, Endrik Wilhelm, has lodged an appeal with Germany's highest judicial body, the federal Constitutional Court in Karlsruhe, in order to overturn the country's ban on incest.

In 2004, Patrick voluntarily underwent a vasectomy.

"It's legal for the couple to live together, and to share a bed. But they are breaking the law once they have sex. If there are no more children, then who will be able to prove that they are a couple?" asked their lawyer.

Dr Wilhelm said a ruling was expected in the next few months.

"Many criminal law experts say that we are right and I'm confident that my clients will win their case. The law against incest is based on very old moral principles. The law was abolished in France, it's about time it should be scrapped here in Germany as well."
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6424937.stm

Thoughts?
 
what matters of the law forbidding or not...the poor children now probably have some sort of disorders. Whats' of love if its blind and deadly?
 
Actually, there is very little chance that a first-generation incestual union will produce a freakish child.
 
Just one more of many, many cases of situations where other people are stickin' their noses into something that's none of their business!

Baron Max
 
It is the logical extension of "private adults can do what they want".

But then it becomes a matter of "should kids have to suffer with the possible results"?
 
Prince_James said:
It is the logical extension of "private adults can do what they want".

But then it becomes a matter of "should kids have to suffer with the possible results"?
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Kids suffer from breeding already. Downs Syndrome, handicaps, abuse, the list goes on.
 
superluminal said:
You think everyone is going to go out now and start making babies with their sisters? Enough to fuck up the gene pool?

:confused:
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i get kind of crazy about stuff like that.
for example there was cojoined siamese twins, joined at the head.
they came to america to get seperated.
the seperation was successfull.
i was thinking they both should be sterilized.
no, i'm not an asshole, just someone that is concerned about a healthy society.
 
Genji:

Kids suffer from breeding already. Downs Syndrome, handicaps, abuse, the list goes on.
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Birth-defects aren't usually caused by such terrible behaviour, though.
 
leopold99 said:
i get kind of crazy about stuff like that.
for example there was cojoined siamese twins, joined at the head.
they came to america to get seperated.
the seperation was successfull.
i was thinking they both should be sterilized.
no, i'm not an asshole, just someone that is concerned about a healthy society.
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Why should they be sterilised?

There is no evidence that their being conjoined was due to genetic reasons. The same applies to any set of conjoined twins. Scientists don't even know why it happens. Conjoined twins usually happen on around the 13th day of conception when the twins are meant to separate into their own egg sacks and if that separation fails, conjoined twins can occur. Unless you wish to regulate or test to ensure people do not have identical twins (conjoined twins tend to be identical twins), there is no way to prevent it.

Many people who are twins do not have twins as children so there is no indication that conjoined twins (if they are able to have children and some can since they might be born joined with only a small part of their skin for example) will go on to have conjoined twins themselves. So your concern, while interesting, is really kind of pointless.

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What I don't understand with this story is that they knew they were brother and sister when they actually fell in love. I know you can't really help who you are attracted to, but come on?..

I just think this is a really sad story. The whole line of thought of 'what in the hell were you thinking' keeps flowing through my mind when I think of this case.:(
 
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Solution:
When in doubt, persecute.


The West needs to bring back stoning. The stort with a village and large rocks.
 
Baron Max said:
Just one more of many, many cases of situations where other people are stickin' their noses into something that's none of their business!

Baron Max
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Wait, weren't you the guy who had trouble with gays.
Oh. I think I see. You don't want the government sanctioning it.
But then, the government shouldn't sanction anybody's relationship. That
sticking their noses....etc.
So if they're sticking their noses in. Might as well be fair about it. Or stay out.

Doesn't your concern about rules and laws changing also make this problematical for you.

I mean incest used to be illegal. Still is.

We can't just change the rules for that small group that wants to have sex with their sibling.

Or?
 
I think that incest should not be illegal, but having kids from such a relationship should.
Any way, if you're not having kids, it's pretty easy to hide what goes on in your bedroom, lest you sell porn videos.
 
Bells said:
What I don't understand with this story is that they knew they were brother and sister when they actually fell in love. I know you can't really help who you are attracted to, but come on?..
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Hmm, that's almost exactly the same argument that's used against homos and lezzies, ain't it? Geez, Bells, I'm surprised at you! :D

Baron Max
 
Baron Max said:
Hmm, that's almost exactly the same argument that's used against homos and lezzies, ain't it? Geez, Bells, I'm surprised at you! :D

Baron Max
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Bells is not only one who needs to look at posts on both topics. See above.

One difference, to help Bells out, is that if you are only sexually attracted to men and you are a man, well, leaving the current partner doesn't help.

But a man who finds himself attracted to his sister, well, he's got options.

I actually think we should leave this bro sis couple alone.

They weren't raised together.

Gray areas abound.
 
Grantywanty said:
...if you are only sexually attracted to men and you are a man, well, leaving the current partner doesn't help. But a man who finds himself attracted to his sister, well, he's got options.
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Huh? Gays and lezzies have options, too. What the hell are you talkin' about? You're either trying to confuse me or you're confused yourself.

Baron Max
 
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