Scientist are the modern Prophets . They seek the God qualities . Natures ways and as of late the qualities are trying to tell you something . Issac Newton was a Christ . He said it and every one dismissed his claim . He thought Jesus was not the true Christ , Why ? He saw him self as the true Christ . He was for his day and Age. You can tell by his contribution to humanity. that he was !
For James R. 'The Honest Theist'.
- Thread starter phlogistician
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Scientist are the modern Prophets . They seek the God qualities . Natures ways and as of late the qualities are trying to tell you something . Issac Newton was a Christ . He said it and every one dismissed his claim . He thought Jesus was not the true Christ , Why ? He saw him self as the true Christ . He was for his day and Age. You can tell by his contribution to humanity. that he was !
Please substantiate your claims about Newton. He did not buy into the idea of the Trinity, but then that is rather a problematic concept.
no, no, and no.
So I guess nothing is actually going to happen.
I read a paper he wrote . He stated Jesus was not the Christ, with reasoning why he was not . Then He signed the paper "The one True God" There are more religious writings by Newton . I just read the one and the one was plain and clear that He thought him self the Christ . I think he understood that he who makes change for humanity for the better is a Christ . You know he was sure there was a bible code . From what I read about him he underlined his bible a lot. I think if I looked at it I could figure out exactly why he underlined what he underlined . I am positive he was picking out verses that supported His actions as being the Christ . I bet you a dollar he underlined the passage that talks about the Seed being Isaac . I am sure he saw him self as Issac the seed who is not subject to the conditions of the rest of the people, but is the seed of the promise . The seed in the bible is the ones who the promise was made . Nobody talks about these verses or they read there own greed in the verses. I think the verses are misunderstood is why. I believe Issac Newton interpretation is correct. It would be similar to Over-Man concepts in Marxism . Super man ideas . Consider this : Would we be super man to a person that lived 3,000 years ago . O.K. if some one reasons the direction of human activity there by seeing the future out come of inevitability . Would they already live in that future ? Would they be motivated to make corrections of flaws in that future . Your a smart guy . You can look at the past and reason why the present is what it is . It starts to look like a bunch of box cars being pulled by trains and even if the train stops pulling the mass of the train continues to push the box cars forward . You can't stop the motion ( Unless enough force is applied , Kaboom ) I think the conclusion is at hand because of the information age and the fall of information silos my self . Now consider The conditioning of churches . The people that live in that mind set ? Where are they on the past / future time scale . Could they be trapped in there circle of influence . Where they are at a different level in the progression of time. Just about every one lives in the past . Have I meet anyone who does not . Yeah . but they tend to be crazier than bat shit , or at least seen by peers as crazier than bat shit
why? why does the world have to end? what does that even mean? i could speculate and say that i think society will continue to become exponentially destructive and destroyed for a variety of reasons. i hope the planet isn't destroyed though. i like this planet. it's beautiful.
and honestly i don't even know what a prophet is really. seems like propheteering (i made that up) is overrated. i was channeling something for a while, and a lot of that was written down. i don't know what it was i was channeling, but it came up with some nice poetry, and had what i thought were some enlightened ideas. whatever it was was pretty pissed off too.
i think more than anything, the capabilities of whatever entities that were causing me to experience what i did is what is impressive, and most meaningful. a lot of what i went through was documented by myself and by other people who were involved. it's just that nobody pays attention to that because it's not important to them. i've felt all along that one day something will happen to make it important.
Ah, I see, still making the claim God is not a biological entity I see.
I guess you haven't derived your theism from Judeo Christian sources then;
Genesis 1:27 "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them."
So where does your belief in God come from?
I guess you haven't derived your theism from Judeo Christian sources then;
Genesis 1:27 "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them."
So where does your belief in God come from?
phlogistician:
Not like a human being, no.
Previously, I offered you the option that I could argue from a Judeo-Christian point of view. That is especially true since I have some knowledge and personal experience of that point of view. You did not take up the offer. Would you like to take it up now? Will it require that I repeat all my claims yet again? Because that alone makes me a little reticent about offering yet again.
Supposing that I did want to argue from a Judeo-Christian viewpoint, Genesis 1:27 is no particular obstacle. You don't have to take it literally, unless you're a fundamentalist (which I never was). That is, humans don't have to look like God to be created "in his own image". They can be like God in other ways. In fact, one of the main injunctions of Judaism and Christianity is that believers should do their best to be like God.
I'm not sure exactly what you're asking. Are you asking how I first learned there was a being called "God"? Or are you asking my reasons for believing in him? Or how I came to accept certain things about God?
Not like a human being, no.
Previously, I offered you the option that I could argue from a Judeo-Christian point of view. That is especially true since I have some knowledge and personal experience of that point of view. You did not take up the offer. Would you like to take it up now? Will it require that I repeat all my claims yet again? Because that alone makes me a little reticent about offering yet again.
Supposing that I did want to argue from a Judeo-Christian viewpoint, Genesis 1:27 is no particular obstacle. You don't have to take it literally, unless you're a fundamentalist (which I never was). That is, humans don't have to look like God to be created "in his own image". They can be like God in other ways. In fact, one of the main injunctions of Judaism and Christianity is that believers should do their best to be like God.
I'm not sure exactly what you're asking. Are you asking how I first learned there was a being called "God"? Or are you asking my reasons for believing in him? Or how I came to accept certain things about God?
James, if _you_ want to support your assertions from a Judeo-Christian viewpoint, that's your choice. I should not be involved in that choice, because supposedly, you are answering earnestly (if not honestly).
On the word image,... well there's the phrase 'the spitting image', which means exact likeness. If we use less specific interpretations, it could mean similar form, like a sculpture, that implies God has arms, and legs, and eyes, and ears, and a nose, and a mouth, and these are all very physical, biological human possessions.
So is your belief derived from a Judeo-Christian viewpoint? If not, where does it come from?
On the word image,... well there's the phrase 'the spitting image', which means exact likeness. If we use less specific interpretations, it could mean similar form, like a sculpture, that implies God has arms, and legs, and eyes, and ears, and a nose, and a mouth, and these are all very physical, biological human possessions.
So is your belief derived from a Judeo-Christian viewpoint? If not, where does it come from?
It comes from the Pharaohs Wish . Live long and prosper kind of thing . It is why it is refereed to as the Great House Of God , Or Mighty Fortress. That was the last symbolism I saw on Prayer Day this year. It is all about the promise of good things to come . You know what a promise is don't yeah . I don't know when the promise was real first made ? Long time ago . Well people are still working towards the goal . Many here on this forum are helping build the Great House and I thank you all
The paradigm shift . What causes it ? O.K. lots of things have caused Paradigm shifts in the past , Agriculture , Industrialism, Smart Growth in human habitations . So we got a bunch of religious people fractured into there separate circles of what they consider righteousness. Just about all of them are Messianic . It is the promise of religion. The bible says " God will Walk the earth . The American native talk about Quetzalcoatl return. The Muslim talks about the 12 Iman. The list goes on and on . All part of the original promise if you ask Me . See it is funny to Me that the Hopi say there will be a great house in the sky built by many people and then we have our promissory note that you all call paper money showing a piramid with the all seeing eye of Horus . The symbolism of Masons where there is a hung man . What do you think that means ? The hanged Man ? The masons are way into Temple stuff . You know the other name of the Sanctuary in the temple design . The Holy of Holies . It is called the Great House . You take the saying in revelations and how it says " He will have the temple with him and it also says The Temple not made with human hands . It all starts to sound the same after awhile . Pharaoh wish , Temple with him , Great House in the sky made by many People , yet not made with physical hands according to christian doctrine. Any way I am pretty good at making wishes come true because of determination . Have you ever been followed or stalked is a better explanation. People writing songs and script that tell everything you do . Makes a person wonder if they are being talked about . On camera or something . Our could it be the wish and all are subject to the determination of the wish . What will it take to bring the Paradigm shift? Does the promise have to be kept first ? You have a pretty heavy duty mind set ? Yet you do live further in the future than most . Maybe you don't need the promise kept , but what about all the people that depend on the promise and have spent there lives believing the promise will be kept ?
James R,
I am curious.
I also realize your playing a role here but don't want to go through the whole thread. If you have answered this earlier, maybe you can point me to it. Thanks in advance.
How do you go from a statement of belief in god, which then justifies a definition of the god.
Any definition of the god would imply a claim of knowledge.
Since nobody can have such knowledge, isn't any person who claims a belief in god acting dishonestly or fooling themselves regarding the subject, or worse delusional ?
Not that they can't be honest in many ways, as atheists can be dishonest in many ways.
Thoughts.
I am curious.
I also realize your playing a role here but don't want to go through the whole thread. If you have answered this earlier, maybe you can point me to it. Thanks in advance.
How do you go from a statement of belief in god, which then justifies a definition of the god.
Any definition of the god would imply a claim of knowledge.
Since nobody can have such knowledge, isn't any person who claims a belief in god acting dishonestly or fooling themselves regarding the subject, or worse delusional ?
Not that they can't be honest in many ways, as atheists can be dishonest in many ways.
Thoughts.
All scriptures are claims of who, what god is and what it wants and does and wants from us.
So show me a scripture that can only be the work of god and not of man.
Considering that apparently this same god, gave different ideas and stories to many others at various times makes each one suspicious.
As you say there is only one god, so which one is correct ?
If you claim it is yours that is correct, you then claim through your religion to know, so it is then you who are making the claim of knowledge.
jpappl:
A point I have been making over the last week or so is that you can't believe in something of which you have no concept. You must have some idea of what you're talking about before you can say you believe in God. In other words, some kind of definition must come first, prior to the statement of belief - or disbelief.
As for knowledge of God, a lot of people claim to have direct knowledge of God through personal contact or experience - even people on this forum. Other people get knowledge through holy books, such as the bible, or from prophets, or whatever.
phlogistician:
My previous post was that "image" need not mean "spitting image". It may mean that humans were created to be thinking, rational beings with a consciousness, a moral sense etc.
I first heard of the concept of God in a Christian context. Since then, I have expanded on and generalised that concept with reference to other religious traditions and philosophical ideas. There's rather an extensive body of thought available concerning God. I don't pretend to be across even a small part of it all, but I've absorbed enough to understand how a lot of people have conceived of and understand God, and I have come to form my own conceptions based on that.
I might equally ask you where your beliefs about astronomy come from, because I'm betting you take a lot of astronomy facts on "faith" or on the basis of authority that you respect. There's really no other option but to do that.
A point I have been making over the last week or so is that you can't believe in something of which you have no concept. You must have some idea of what you're talking about before you can say you believe in God. In other words, some kind of definition must come first, prior to the statement of belief - or disbelief.
As for knowledge of God, a lot of people claim to have direct knowledge of God through personal contact or experience - even people on this forum. Other people get knowledge through holy books, such as the bible, or from prophets, or whatever.
phlogistician:
My previous post was that "image" need not mean "spitting image". It may mean that humans were created to be thinking, rational beings with a consciousness, a moral sense etc.
I first heard of the concept of God in a Christian context. Since then, I have expanded on and generalised that concept with reference to other religious traditions and philosophical ideas. There's rather an extensive body of thought available concerning God. I don't pretend to be across even a small part of it all, but I've absorbed enough to understand how a lot of people have conceived of and understand God, and I have come to form my own conceptions based on that.
I might equally ask you where your beliefs about astronomy come from, because I'm betting you take a lot of astronomy facts on "faith" or on the basis of authority that you respect. There's really no other option but to do that.
Apologies for late reply, had to attend a funeral, and then had a minor crisis at work upon my return.
That's a rather weak use of 'image', given it's translation at the time, in context. Image meant a good likeness, not just pictographically, but in form, and essence. I think you have diluted it somewhat.
Yet you struggle to define said God. You have so few words to describe this thing to me. I still don't really have a good picture of what it is you are proposing. That's is what you are supposed to be creating: a description in words I can imagine myself.
Beliefs? Odd use of the word, given that proofs are required for publications.
Given I worked with a bunch of Astronomers, a lot has been demonstrated to me, from instrument, to data gathering, through to analysis. Sure, a lot of it was quite complex, some of this stuff is hardcore Physics, but I understand enough of it to understand the high level, and what's more, others can follow, and repeat, and get the same results. I'm not quite sure why you mention this, because it only underlines the disparity between a rigorous scientific approach, and the prose you have so far given us yourself.
That's a rather weak use of 'image', given it's translation at the time, in context. Image meant a good likeness, not just pictographically, but in form, and essence. I think you have diluted it somewhat.
Yet you struggle to define said God. You have so few words to describe this thing to me. I still don't really have a good picture of what it is you are proposing. That's is what you are supposed to be creating: a description in words I can imagine myself.
Beliefs? Odd use of the word, given that proofs are required for publications.
Given I worked with a bunch of Astronomers, a lot has been demonstrated to me, from instrument, to data gathering, through to analysis. Sure, a lot of it was quite complex, some of this stuff is hardcore Physics, but I understand enough of it to understand the high level, and what's more, others can follow, and repeat, and get the same results. I'm not quite sure why you mention this, because it only underlines the disparity between a rigorous scientific approach, and the prose you have so far given us yourself.
James R,
Yes, some kind of definition must come first, agreed.
Those that claim to have knowledge (justified true belief) through direct contact I can understand as being honest with themselves, they believe that contact was with god, although this god never seems to offer them information that would be evidence to anyone else
However, knoweldge of god can not be obtained through scripture or prophets because there is no evidence to support the initial claim other than someones word. In fact, if we consider holy books then if anything there is evidence to doubt the claims. Which is another discussion entirely.
My point is, it's like the discussion about aliens. Until we actually have evidence of aliens or gods we can not define them, thus we have nothing to base a justified true belief on, thus we can not have knowledge at least not yet and thus we are either not being honest with ourselves to make the claim of knowledge or we are delusional about the claim.
So for me it's not a matter of whether someone is being honest about their belief, it's that they tend to forget they don't actually know and the line between belief and knowledge gets crossed.
Yes, some kind of definition must come first, agreed.
Those that claim to have knowledge (justified true belief) through direct contact I can understand as being honest with themselves, they believe that contact was with god, although this god never seems to offer them information that would be evidence to anyone else
However, knoweldge of god can not be obtained through scripture or prophets because there is no evidence to support the initial claim other than someones word. In fact, if we consider holy books then if anything there is evidence to doubt the claims. Which is another discussion entirely.
My point is, it's like the discussion about aliens. Until we actually have evidence of aliens or gods we can not define them, thus we have nothing to base a justified true belief on, thus we can not have knowledge at least not yet and thus we are either not being honest with ourselves to make the claim of knowledge or we are delusional about the claim.
So for me it's not a matter of whether someone is being honest about their belief, it's that they tend to forget they don't actually know and the line between belief and knowledge gets crossed.
The 12 Iman is the Muslim Teacher that is to come . He comes out of a hole in the earth and is the spirit that lives in the earth . The equivalence of Jesus's return for Christian and Messiah for the Jews , Yokan Bolon for the native American, or Quezacotl also a name in the America's , The Muslim says Mahdi , You could say Mithra or you could say Enki from Sumerians . Many names all point to the same end . The Bird Man . Sara posted a new name " The Demon Eagle " The old testament says the guy who walks on the top of a wall with a plumb line in his hand. The guy that measures the earth. The Book of Danial says his name is Michael . Atlantis tales call him Milquat . The spirit that lives on from Atlantis . It is the equivalence of Melchizedek which I believe is all myths about the same guy said to have invented the plough that started the Agriculture revolution . Mekigal . The Micheal Myth . The one yet to come . That promise . Every one thinks it was Jesus . Jesus was thief that stole the tittle . Why did he do it ? Well if you read it right it was to give glory to the the Father . Who is the Father? The promise of the one to come . You should be able to work this out . Look around the internet . There many who claim to be the Father . They get this Idea from Scripture . They didn't just make it up .
The seed is the promise . I forget how it is exactly put in scripture . Something like " If there was not a seed then ? I forget . Read the book of Hebrews real slow and you will find it and understand better . Everybody works to full fill the promise . That is why you all act like ass holes to Me . To full fill the promise . I call it my necessary beating . Got kill the kings spirit you know . Make sure the King is dead . You all did a pretty good job . I don't ever do anything for my self because of it . You fuckers , You ruined Me . I could of had all the money by now if you all would not be so hell bent on destroying my life . I know you all think I might just be delusional . You have no Idea . Destiny rules my life and you fuckers are the players that make it all happen . You don't even know your doing it . That is the funny thing . Some day you to will hear the wind cry Mary , then I will no longer weep alone . The weeping man will have lots of company then . I look forward to the day people see what they have done and how much effect it was had on the world . Maybe it is better you stay ignorant. The pain might kill you . So don't listen to the wind , stay ignorant and that way you can keep chasing the money and doing god knows what to get it .
O.K. here is a little test for you , Look at your bible and read all the verses that have the word Me in it . All the Me's that are capitalized . O.K. it you listen to the radio listen and see how many songs reference the word Me . Think of it as all being one person instead of just conceit of each individual artist , This Me character is how I define it .
This is not directed to one person . but all that live on the earth , no exceptions :
Fuck you! I am a musician , not your wood carrying lackey social slave.
Yeah look that up too ! It is in the bible . The Children of Israel made to carry wood instead of playing there musical instruments . I was 8 when I became a prisoner in my own House . A Mercenary trained to kill was my Master . Lots of you in the greater Sacramento area know him as Little Jimmy . He would say " I will Cut your dick of an inch at a time if you don't get the hustle in your step boy. then he who kick us with his boots on . Oh what joy that was . Fun days aye . I lived no tears . It did shape my thinking process though. It was kind of like being name Sue and being a boy . Get tough or die . I must have been about 13 when that Johny Cash song came out