First Transracial Senator?

[iceaura]

One distant ancestor doesn't make you native American when the rest of your family is European.

That depends.
And the term "native American" is your contribution.

We, as Democrats, try our best to be the non-racist party.

Warren would be a better example of that than your posts here.

I'm criticizing her judgement to identify as such, not a family story, which is acceptable as a legend.

Aside from that one form, we have no evidence of her ever "identifying" herself as racially red. And that form came with instructions, which she apparently followed. So her "judgment" was not at the center of whatever seems oblivious about that form.
And it wasn't a "legend". It was her apparently accurate family history.

I like Warren's policies in general, but I don't think she has any leadership talent.

I agree - she seems uneasily misfit for executive tasks. But definitely not because of this. And she seems valuable - very valuable - in her role as legislator and public analyst.

 

[spidergoat]

And the term "native American" is your contribution.

That is what they call it.

Aside from that one form, we have no evidence of her ever "identifying" herself as racially red.

It's the form that proves her delusion.

 

[iceaura]

That is what they call it.

They? They aren't here.

It's the form that proves her delusion.

She suffers from no visible delusions in the matter.
Unlike her critics.

 

[iceaura]

Btw:
I don't think House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy suffers from delusions about his inlaws, either:
https://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-na-pol-mccarthy-contracts-20181014-story.html

Vortex faced no competitive bids for most of the contracts because the Small Business Administration accepted Wages’ claim in 1998 that he is a Cherokee Indian. Under the SBA program, his company became eligible for federal contracts set aside for economically and socially disadvantaged members of minority groups, a boon to its business.

Wages says he is one-eighth Cherokee. An examination of government and tribal records by The Times and a leading Cherokee genealogist casts doubt on that claim, however. He is a member of a group called the Northern Cherokee Nation, which has no federal or state recognition as a legitimate tribe. It is considered a fraud by leaders of tribes that have federal recognition.

Vortex was awarded more than $4 million in minority set-aside contracts for projects at China Lake. McCarthy has been a staunch advocate in Congress for funding and staffing for China Lake, the Navy’s largest property at more than 1.1 million acres, and spearheaded successful efforts to expand its borders.

 

[billvon]

One distant ancestor doesn't make you native American when the rest of your family is European.

Per US government standards it does, at least when it comes to reporting one's race.

We, as Democrats, try our best to be the non-racist party.

Odd, then, that you are making such a big deal about race.

Warren has some American Indian DNA. Per government standards at the time she filled out the form, she is therefore Native American. You can disagree with the government's definition; that's fine. But it sounds like you are disagreeing with HER, which isn't.

 

[spidergoat]

She suffers from no visible delusions in the matter.

She used to think she was a Cherokee.

Per US government standards it does, at least when it comes to reporting one's race.

Oh good, we are trusting the feds on this question.

Odd, then, that you are making such a big deal about race.

It happens, like when someone wears blackface or thinks a drop of native blood makes you a native. She flubbed this whole issue in more ways than one.And she wouldn't have apologized if she thought she did nothing wrong. Good way to start your campaign.

I can only hope that Trump's racist taunts actually help her. If she's the nominee, I will vote for her, but I hope she isn't.

 

[RainbowSingularity]

I can only hope that Trump's racist taunts actually help her. If she's the nominee, I will vote for her, but I hope she isn't.

i get a sense you intimate that she knowingly lied to seek an advantage.

yet that is clearly not the case.
Liz did not lie

the assertion of her being a liar is the republican political (strategists) seeking to increase racial hatred to win the next election.

they know if they can turn US society into a virtual state of racial civil war then all the South American and African American voters will not vote.
this will hand a walk over victory to the alt-right.

same game plan as last election. it worked !

they are playing the "every one else is just as croked as the current administration" game
and the USA sheople are likely to believe it because it panders to an existing narrative of all power is corrupt so lets have the least worst of the bad... which equals nothing new, dont change anything
change is fear
change is bad
change is evil commy hippie reds under the bed so dont poke the bully because he may be about to give me some free money.

the optics look bad
but the driving force that runs the party and the difference in the administration is different.
but the cult-of-personalaties that the alt-right want to turn the whole free democratic world into a shop of horrors to the highest bidder is their game...


what happened to all the public works trump spent months saying he would do ?

meanwhile entire neighborhoods are exploding from old gas pipe lines and houses are blowing up.

but the sheople usa are told to not question authority and mind your own business unless you want the school bully to give you a beating.

(i agree the administration is the ones who you should vote for unless Hitler is their nominee)

 

[spidergoat]

i get a sense you intimate that she knowingly lied to seek an advantage.

Knowing or unknowing, I don't know which would be worse.
Trump being evil is not an excuse.

 

[RainbowSingularity]

Knowing or unknowing, I don't know which would be worse.
Trump being evil is not an excuse.

lol

there is another side to the debate which i have talked about with people from different cultural backgrounds.
that is the moral ethics of having a question like that on application forms.
and... consequently the disclosure of that information.

surely, the majority of the debate should contain the question "why must someone declare a racial bias of personal association to an application form for something that should have no discrimination ?"

having the luxury of knowing people from many different backgrounds i have also had opportunity to hear them joke about the idea of putting in random responses to such questions because tyey oppose them on moral grounds by defining that as a discriminatory question which should have no place in the process.

underneath it all there is the desire to fill representation of minority groups into a true democracy so it is an actual democracy.
though, that debate about quote concepts as a form of dividing people to make a grab for power is still held to be a legitimate form of moral position by some poorly educated people(or those wishing to tilt the table in any direction to give themselves an advantage)

soo...
is the question morally correct ? (probably not by the sounds of the responses to suggesting it must be answered as a forced label)
was the question a legal question ?(probably not)
is the question legitimate ? (probably)
is there an incorrect answer ? (no)
is there an illegal answer ? (no)

 

[spidergoat]

is the question morally correct ?

Yes. I believe in affirmative action. If she is truly a tribal member, that should count as a positive factor in her employment. But she also wrote this about herself in a cookbook.

 

[billvon]

She used to think she was a Cherokee.

When did she claim that?

Oh good, we are trusting the feds on this question.

?? Who said anything about "trusting the feds?"

It happens, like when someone wears blackface or thinks a drop of native blood makes you a native.

When did she say that?

 

[RainbowSingularity]

Yes. I believe in affirmative action. If she is truly a tribal member, that should count as a positive factor in her employment. But she also wrote this about herself in a cookbook.

But

also

?

truly a tribal member

is this the same conversation as "cultural appropriation" ?
the foot prints of this subject lead all the way through the republican party and along the way laugh in the face of copy wright infringement laws which is making a joke of corporate privacy.

if the ethereal theme is dishonesty then the conversation has already finished when the republican party continued to use music from artists who told them no.

you cant have a logical debate about honesty when you assign the ability of one side to normalize as being not culpable to the same moral guide(note guide not law as moral laws are mostly religious[facist dictators] fanaticism).
which is the flip side of your comment about "evilness"

what is the opposite to "evilness" ?(realm of false debate tactics issues)

who do you think was paying for the spying on Liz Warren to get those details and information ?

is it legal to pay someone to spy on your political rivals in the usa ?

this is probably why i just saw the word "socialist" get thrown out in the media again.
trying to legitimize something that is purely un-american and a nixon era no-no.

as an ongoing over arching theme, if the conversation dwells around the idea of cultural appropriation for personal gain then the question eventually gets asked...
"does the supreme court have equal opportunity law written is an affirmative action policy and how is that shown to be working?"

 

[iceaura]

She used to think she was a Cherokee.

Says who?
No evidence of that afaik.

If she is truly a tribal member, that should count as a positive factor in her employment

Once again your obliviousness to the distinctions between Tribe, race, culture, and ancestry, leads you into the weeds.

It happens, like when someone wears blackface or thinks a drop of native blood makes you a native.

It did not happen with Warren, as far as anything we've seen here.

And she wouldn't have apologized if she thought she did nothing wrong.

She did not apologize for any of this you are posting about her.

Knowing or unknowing, I don't know which would be worse.

You talking to you?

 

[spidergoat]

Says who?

She did .
https://www.masslive.com/politics/index.ssf/2012/05/elizabeth_warren_family_cookbo.html

 

[spidergoat]

who do you think was paying for the spying on Liz Warren to get those details and information ?

The press.

"does the supreme court have equal opportunity law written is an affirmative action policy and how is that shown to be working?"

In the United States, affirmative action in employment and education has been the subject of legal and political controversy; in 2003, a pair of decisions by the Supreme Court of the United States (Grutter v. Bollinger and Gratz v. Bollinger) permitted educational institutions to consider race as a factor when admitting students while prohibiting the use of quotas.

Wikipedia

 

[Tiassa]

the optics look bad

The optics look bad because American society is generally racist and, historically, white supremacist in particular. The optics for our society and culture look bad in the context that we would even legitimize Trump and his supremacist base.

Then again, Americans went and elected him. There is a spectacle that sometimes seems funny, when Trump supporters try to pretend they aren't: They don't support Trump but .... Or, perhaps, they're not white supremacist, but ....

In the end, optics like Warren's only look bad because they are what the market is determined to look at, and has already judged them bad regardless of what they are.

Americans do this over and over and over again, which is why it' can seem puzzling when people pretend confusion about being called out over their racism. Except it's not really puzzling; they're just behaving like supremacists.

And the only reason they can get away with it is empowered people who will let them.

 

[iceaura]

She did .
https://www.masslive.com/politics/index.ssf/2012/05/elizabeth_warren_family_cookbo.html

She did not.

Read your own latest link, finding for us the passage where Warren claims to be Cherokee, herself. Or "native American". Or a member of any Tribe. Or anything else other than what has been pretty well established is an accurate claim of hers and a physical fact: she has a recent racially red ancestor, probably of Cherokee cultural heritage, of some significance to her family and its family history.

Or leave off this rancid line of twaddle.
"Knowing or unknowing, I don't know which would be worse."

 

[billvon]

She did .
https://www.masslive.com/politics/index.ssf/2012/05/elizabeth_warren_family_cookbo.html

Maybe you should read your own links before using them. She does not claim to be Cherokee. She claims to have recipes passed down through her family, some of which were Native American. And since she does have a Native American ancestor, that makes sense.

If a guy named John O'Brien opened an Irish pub, and claimed to have authentic Irish stew - but only had a single distant ancestor as Irish - would you attack him with the same level of indignation?

 

[spidergoat]

In 1984, a cousin in Oklahoma asked her to contribute recipes for a cookbook billed as "recipes passed down through the Five Tribes families." The book was entitled Pow Wow Chow.

Warren sent five, and under each one, listed herself as Elizabeth Warren, Cherokee.

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-...behind-elizabeth-warren-and-her-native-ameri/

 

[iceaura]

Warren sent five, and under each one, listed herself as Elizabeth Warren, Cherokee.

That identified the Tribal and family heritage of the food, not the Tribe or race of the cook, you idiot.

Or leave off this rancid line of twaddle.
"Knowing or unknowing, I don't know which would be worse."

- - - -
https://www.washingtonpost.com/blog...5aefee44&noredirect=on&utm_term=.b85f2bd130e2

But just as with Clinton and the emails, we’re going to see this trivial matter be elevated to the most important thing we have to talk about when we talk about Warren, through a cooperative effort between Republicans and the news media. The latter will say endlessly that it “raises questions” about Warren while seldom specifying what those questions are, because the questions are so stupid.