Faith

Medicine Woman said:
jayleew: I have answered this before, but I will say again:

Put your faith in the God who is the least illogical. There was a time when I thought that maybe all gods were the same God and that it was just the cultures that differed. Anyone who studies the beliefs of the religions will find that all of them are very screwy. The only one that makes sense and has the most evidence is Christianity and Judism.

For those that missed the other threads, the evidence is the chariot wheels in the Red Sea, the burned mountain top of Sinai, the dried up rock-spring, Elijah's cave, the bitter springs, the altars built on the foot of Sinai with Hebrew markings and of course the Dead Sea Scrolls.
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M*W: There is absolutely NO evidence of what you've said, and since you've repeated it, that makes you a pathological liar.
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These things exist, I have seen the video images. They were shot on location, much of which illegally behind enemy lines. You can argue that the evidence doesn't support the existence of God, but you cannot argue that the evidence does not exist.
 
geeser said:
faith is the absence of reason. not so much perverted but perverseah but it does, it shows, how man will follow and idolise another to the point of death.
or if you like how a man will follow a fantasy to the same end.
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Man. You are saying nothing. It's like those fanatics that say "Jesus Saves, and "you will go to hell". You are just making afirmations. If faith his perverse, has u say (and that is just a stupid generalization), then i sugest that you presente a case for everything in you life. U must remove every drop of faith u might have in your thoughts or actions.
 
jayleew: These things exist, I have seen the video images.
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M*W: Video images do not evidence make.
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jayleew: They were shot on location, much of which illegally behind enemy lines.
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M*W: What enemy lines are you talking about?
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jayleew: You can argue that the evidence doesn't support the existence of God, but you cannot argue that the evidence does not exist.
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M*W: There is no argument. It's fact. There is no evidence of God, and there is no evidence of evidence. You've been lied to.
 
Joeman said:
http://www.jcnot4me.com/Items/theology/Second Coming stuff/matthew_24_verse_by_verse.htm
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First of all, Mark is taking text from an individuals interpretation of scriptures. Much of the text Mark is referring to is not scripture, but what Richard interpreted the scripture as.

The benefit of a committee approach in producing a Bible translation is that it lessens the tendency for an individual's idiosyncrasies to find their way into the Bible.

Such is the problem with Richard's interpretation. Aside from that his argument of the audience is questionable.

When shooting a gun, you need to first aim it.

Am I talking to Joeman, or is this statement actually instruction that applies to the reader?
 
jayleew said:
No, because you are one man. That is just one of the many problems with many other religions. Who can trust just one man? The Bible has many authors who tell the same story, giving it weight. The more times someone agrees to something (even a lie), the better the odds that it is true.
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it might have better odds, but it would still be a lie.
if a thing is wrong, and one man or a billion men say it's right, it's still wrong.
it does'nt change it's status just because more people say it's true, "now come on", does it.
jayleew said:
With that logic alone, many more religions can be eliminated because they are not old enough.
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as can christainity, if your looking for the oldest, it ain't the one.
 
gOn said:
Man. You are saying nothing. It's like those fanatics that say "Jesus Saves, and "you will go to hell". You are just making afirmations. If faith his perverse, has u say (and that is just a stupid generalization), then i sugest that you presente a case for everything in you life. U must remove every drop of faith u might have in your thoughts or actions.
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oh come on, we are on a science forum discussing religion, therefore the discussion refers to religious faith as you well know, thats what we are all refering to, read the post that the preacher supplied.
and try not to be silly.
 
jayleew said:
No, because you are one man. That is just one of the many problems with many other religions. Who can trust just one man?
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That's the problem with many religions, including Christianity which was invented by Paul.

The Bible has many authors who tell the same story, giving it weight. The more times someone agrees to something (even a lie), the better the odds that it is true. With that logic alone, many more religions can be eliminated because they are not old enough.
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The Biblical authors do NOT tell the same story. That's why the churches split. There is a very large discrepancy in the 4 gospels.

http://www.jcnot4me.com/Items/contradictions/gospel_wars_matthew_vs_john.htm
 
jayleew said:
First of all, Mark is taking text from an individuals interpretation of scriptures. Much of the text Mark is referring to is not scripture, but what Richard interpreted the scripture as.
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That's Bullshit. Mark listed 52 translations of the bible.

The benefit of a committee approach in producing a Bible translation is that it lessens the tendency for an individual's idiosyncrasies to find their way into the Bible.

Such is the problem with Richard's interpretation. Aside from that his argument of the audience is questionable.

When shooting a gun, you need to first aim it.

Am I talking to Joeman, or is this statement actually instruction that applies to the reader?
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OMG. You are such as coward. You didn't even try to tackle the problem that the holy text itself. Are you scared?

BTW, NIV, NRSV, KJV are not too far off from the translated version above.
 
Jayleew:

The fossil record has unearthed no intermediate species, but we should have a lot of them. If you have evidence of an intermediate species you would be rich.
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Jayleew,

I hate to rain on your parade, but:

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-transitional.html

You should really research the statements you are about to post. If you don't want evolution and the fossil record to be valid, the surest way to obtain that self fulfilling prophecy is to ignore current findings.
 
jayleew: These things exist, I have seen the video images. They were shot on location, much of which illegally behind enemy lines. You can argue that the evidence doesn't support the existence of God, but you cannot argue that the evidence does not exist.
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M*W: The evidence does not exist. You are gullible enough to believe a man by the name of Ron Wyatt who made these claims. Apparently, Wyatt claimed to have discovered such relics as Noah's Ark, the Ark of the Covenant, Egyptian chariot wheels in the Red Sea, even Jesus' blood which contained only half of the normal chromosomes, blah, blah, blah. He has no credentials whatsoever as an archeologist. He was a Seventh Day Adventist and a nurse from Madison, TN who died in 1999. He never produced one item of evidence for his outlandish claims. He wrote books and held seminars, but every word out of his mouth was a lie.

If the atheists online want a good laugh out of jayleew's claims, read the following:

http://www.ldolphin.org/wyatt.html

http://www.tentmaker.org/WAR/

http://www.apologeticsindex.org/W07.html
 
Oops, I forgot. Isaac Newton was religious. But he and those who came before also had no knowledge of the natural history of the universe as we do. As humans progress, we see reality and adapt. Today, Newton would be laughing at theists.
 
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superluminal said:
Oops, I forgot. Isaac Newton was religious. But he and those who came before also had no knowledge of the natural history of the universe as we do. As humans progress, we see reality and adapt. Today, Newton would be laughing at theists.
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Bull. :bugeye: That's a fallacy. It's no Different saying that Jesus Saves. U're just shooting words...
Many scientists today have Faith. Francis Collins, for example. He's an Evangelist and the director of the human genome project.

And usually the adaptation that u talk, it means new forms of faith rather then abandoning faith. Although many abandon any kind of religious faith (wich is OK). Many people have no religion but still remain Theists. I myself am an Agnostic Theist with no religion.
 
Joeman said:
The Biblical authors do NOT tell the same story. That's why the churches split. There is a very large discrepancy in the 4 gospels.
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You have a lot of faith to believe everything Mark Smith has to say. I do not doubt that his findings of small details are not consistent, but these details have nothing to do with the doctrines of Christianity. The doctrines are consistent. Conversely to what Mark has to say, I believe these two accounts from Matthew and John give further credence to the event's authenticity. The discrepencies that Mark has pointed out are details of the weather. Suppose that it rained on September 11th, 2001 at 4:00pm. To my memory, I recall it raining at 3:00pm. And you recall that it rained at 4:00pm. What are the odds that it rained on September 11th, 2001? Does the fact that it rained even matter to the events of that day?

The purpose of the gospels is to witness to the events of Jesus Christ. They do that, and the small details of whether Jesus came riding in on one or two donkeys to Jerusalem does not in any away hinder the fact that he rode in to Jerusalem, which is the point of the story. The number of donkeys does not matter. The point is not that one or two women saw Jesus at the tomb, the point is that someone say Jesus at the tomb! The important thing to remember is that the doctrines and parables are consistent. Mark Smith's attempt to discredit the witnesses' accounts by attacking the inconsistency of small details that do not affect the events brings the choronology of the events in to question, but not the authenticity of the events' occurrance. Anyone who argues these things is wasting time.
 
Medicine Woman said:
jayleew: These things exist, I have seen the video images. They were shot on location, much of which illegally behind enemy lines. You can argue that the evidence doesn't support the existence of God, but you cannot argue that the evidence does not exist.
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M*W: The evidence does not exist. You are gullible enough to believe a man by the name of Ron Wyatt who made these claims. Apparently, Wyatt claimed to have discovered such relics as Noah's Ark, the Ark of the Covenant, Egyptian chariot wheels in the Red Sea, even Jesus' blood which contained only half of the normal chromosomes, blah, blah, blah. He has no credentials whatsoever as an archeologist. He was a Seventh Day Adventist and a nurse from Madison, TN who died in 1999. He never produced one item of evidence for his outlandish claims. He wrote books and held seminars, but every word out of his mouth was a lie.
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You are kidding right? That is all the research you did? You thought I was talking about Ron's supposed evidence? Most of the evidence I have put forth has nothing to do with Ron Wyatt's evidence. The videos I speak of are based on Ron's hypotheses, but was unable to substantiate himself. Ron's credibility is in question even from among biblical scholars. I am not talking about any of his supposed evidence. He has none, as far as I'm concerned. But as with science, he has a hypothesis, and explorers followed them, and recorded the evidence to support his hypothesis.

Check this site out. It looks like you might even be able to watch the video yourself!

http://www.goccc.com/seforremtsi1.html
 
superluminal said:
The vast majority don't.

Scientists aren't immune to dichotomous thinking. Although it's very rare.
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Dichotomous Thinking is something that fundamentalists don't have. And scientist that see religion miths as methaphors, don't have that too.
 
jayleew: You are kidding right? That is all the research you did?
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M*W: Kidding? No.
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jayleew: You thought I was talking about Ron's supposed evidence? Most of the evidence I have put forth has nothing to do with Ron Wyatt's evidence. The videos I speak of are based on Ron's hypotheses, but was unable to substantiate himself. Ron's credibility is in question even from among biblical scholars.
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M*W: Well, let's see. You type in "Egyptian chariot wheels Red Sea," and you get 50+ sites of Ron Wyatt's invalidated "research." Sure, he made some trips to the area. He may have even taken others along. But he found nothing. When asked to publish his findings, he never got around to it. He did go on the lecture circuit speaking at Seventh Day Adventist organizations, and he made a bundle. But he never once offered any evidence for his "findings."
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jayleew: I am not talking about any of his supposed evidence. He has none, as far as I'm concerned. But as with science, he has a hypothesis, and explorers followed them, and recorded the evidence to support his hypothesis.
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M*W: But he was not permitted to publish his findings in any credible scientific or archeological journal. He was a scam artist, and ignorant religious people fell for his delusions.
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jayleew: Check this site out. It looks like you might even be able to watch the video yourself!

http://www.goccc.com/seforremtsi1.html
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M*W: I checked it out, and it's a DVD for sale! Why doesn't that surprise me?

Let me tell you something. Legitimate biblical scholars and archeologists have scoured those areas looking for evidence in the hopes of proving the biblical stories actually happened. There is money in that, you know. Unfortunately, even the true researchers never found anything... anything at all... to prove the bible stories true.

You are either misinformed or you are a liar. My money's on the latter.
 
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