Faith in God....What it really means

[Yosef]

Personally I can't get my mind around faith in a god. There is absolutely no reason for me to even speculate about the existence of one let alone base my life on it. There is no doubt in my mind at least that theism runs counter to what evolution has endowed us with, intelligence. I do not think that because we are fortunate to be equipped with a self awareness mechanism, or a consciousness, that it automatically means it was divinely inspired or that a deity must exist just because we think it.

I find it interesting how you talk about intelligence and consciousness and how you avoid spirit and the emotional aspects of human existence. Just tell me what evolution teaches about intelligence?! That fossil records show advancement in tools ancient creatures used?! Then you think also internet and radio waves are the product of natural selection?!

You also need to explain how intelligence came about. It cannot be "natural selection" (if such a thing exists). A disaster in environment can just kill the organism, no other chance.

 

[lightgigantic]

Psychoticepisode

I'm not really going to argue your points because....well...I detect your more sinister side. You know, the little condescending one that makes you so popular. So I am going to lower my standards just to respond. OK?

quite the magnanimous chap, aren't you?

“
Originally Posted by lightgigantic
Faith (in regards to anything) can range from a vague inclination to concrete resolution.
”
Horse manure. The only thing concrete about faith is the heads of the faithful.

So when you ask yourself the question whether it will rain tomorrow or in two weeks time, the answer is always a 100% yes or no?

“
(Perhaps you are talking about the limits of what you can assume according to your knowledge base ....... and needless to say, there are tons of arguments out there about what determines the length and breadth of any knowledge base eg - the ol physics prof vs the high school drop out)
”
I agree, your knowledge is baseless.

according to your knowledge base, no doubt

“
more accurately, its frustrating for any person to have to resort to evidencing their claim to a person of an insufficient knowledge base who is convinced otherwise.
”
Quite right, yet we atheists still have time for brainless theists.

given that an atheist is bereft of evidence for their claim, there seems to be another element to the dialogue you are missing ...

“
I think you missed the part where faith plays an important part in increasing knowledge.
”
I haven't witnessed anything to support that claim. Increased knowledge in what? Sky faeries?

needless to say, if one doesn't have faith in universities as a place of learning, they will face enormous hurdles if they want to enter into the aeronautical industry.

“
Nothing else in this world makes itself knowable to a seer determined to do nothing but sit on their laurels
”
But nothing makes itself knowable to someone who goes after it?

it makes itself knowable via application, so, given the nature of application, there still remains a margin for error even if one bears initiative (...... but the margin for error is not anywhere near so complete as someone who displays no initiative).

Speaking for yourself?

approximating your level of initiative actually ...

“
Its not so much an issue of intelligence, but the values that drive it
”
Yes, theism requires one to possess very little intelligence. Idiot savants are very focused and as you well know they abound in your area of expertise.

its kind of difficult to use the words "idiot savant" while suggesting that one is not arguing from one's values (unless one wants to present one's self as an idiot, of course)

 

[-ND-]

God takes over my body when he is on vacation.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

It takes an open heart more than an open mind. If your heart is open, then god will take care of blowing your mind to bits.

*************
M*W: I couldn't have said it better!

 

[Medicine*Woman]

I do not need faith in Gods existence. God exists this i know. Now don't ask me to prove it because i cannot prove it to you any more than lori can prove it.

Faith is about trusting a God you already know exists. No faith is needed in the teachings of God when you can understand the reasons behind those teachings. Faith is needed when one comes to a teaching of God that one cannot understand.

So i need no faith in the actual existence of God. I know God is.

*************
M*W: This is your mind on napalm.

 

[(Q)]

I find it interesting how you talk about intelligence and consciousness and how you avoid spirit and the emotional aspects of human existence. Just tell me what evolution teaches about intelligence?! That fossil records show advancement in tools ancient creatures used?! Then you think also internet and radio waves are the product of natural selection?!

You also need to explain how intelligence came about. It cannot be "natural selection" (if such a thing exists). A disaster in environment can just kill the organism, no other chance.

Yosef, you demonstrate enormous ignorance and stupidity on just about everything. Get your face out of your holy book and learn something before it's too late.

 

[mike47]

Yosef, you demonstrate enormous ignorance and stupidity on just about everything. Get your face out of your holy book and learn something before it's too late.

Why and why this ( Q ) is always belittling people and calling them names and he knows NOTHING about nothing !!!.

 

[(Q)]

Why and why this ( Q ) is always belittling people and calling them names and he knows NOTHING about nothing !!!.

That would be a double negative indicating that you think I'm omniscient. Thanks!

 

[swarm]

I think the atheist has the highest faith in god.

 

[PsychoticEpisode]

I think the atheist has the highest faith in god.

I don't want to believe in God and why should I? Knowing God exists is more important than believing. What is the justification for belief?

The only reason theists have faith is because they don't know if god exists.

 

[swarm]

I don't want to believe in God and why should I?

Exactly. That is why you have greater faith than the theist.

 

[PsychoticEpisode]

Exactly. That is why you have greater faith than the theist.

If you are using faith as a measure of resistance then I agree. Faith being low on the scale.

 

[NMSquirrel]

faith is like a sore muscle..you feel it,you know it is there..but try to communicate it and it becomes the listeners responsibility to believe you...

 

[Lori_7]

*************
M*W: I couldn't have said it better!

The fact is MW, that you really never say anything.

 

[jayleew]

The fact is MW, that you really never say anything.

If MW doesn't ever say anything, then why pick on her?

 

[Lori_7]

If MW doesn't ever say anything, then why pick on her?

good point.

back to faith...

may i reiterate that faith is trust. some people trust things they know, some people trust things they don't know, and everybody knows different things. i think some people don't know much about anything, and say they have faith, but what they really have is an agenda that is served by saying they have it.

 

[NMSquirrel]

think about how you were raised..(or how you are raising your kids)

were you allowed to make mistakes till you learned from them (yea...not all of them)

or was it alot of condemnation and insults everytime you made a mistake?

which is more effective?..

god wants it to be about the former..man makes it about the latter..

 

[PsychoticEpisode]

may i reiterate that faith is trust.

You're trusting your senses am I correct? The faith you speak about is the faith you have in your own mind. Since you claim to know God then this faith has nothing to do with God, yes or no?

 

[Lori_7]

You're trusting your senses am I correct? The faith you speak about is the faith you have in your own mind. Since you claim to know God then this faith has nothing to do with God, yes or no?

Yes I have faith because of what I've experienced, and I experience through my senses. Like you have faith in the sun because you feel its heat on your skin and see its light with your eyes. My experience though has also enlightened me to senses that I apparently have other than the 5 physical we know. I can't define god, but I know for sure that I've experienced and/or interacted with it. It is not defined in or subject to the constraints of this world that we know.

 

[Adstar]

good point.

back to faith...

may i reiterate that faith is trust. some people trust things they know, some people trust things they don't know, and everybody knows different things. i think some people don't know much about anything, and say they have faith, but what they really have is an agenda that is served by saying they have it.

I find that a lot of people who say they have faith have it not in the what they say they have it in. Many have faith in their pairents in their community/culture. So they trust in what they have been taught on an issue. They never investigate their faith in depth because to them it could lead them to leaving the faith of their pairents/community/culture. They cannot even consider such a outcome because for them it would be the ultimate act of betrayel to their world. They love their pairents/community/culture more then their God. They never seem to consider that their pairents/community/culture got a twisted teaching in the first place.

Matthew 10
37 He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days