Evolution - True Or False

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(Q) said:
The bible was written by men, usually in the third person, most of whom did not observe the alleged events they wrote about.
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Actually they may have not been there but the may have observed them.
We don't know as a certainty. We do know they got the facts amazingly correct everytime.
 
Saquist said:
Actually they may have not been there but the may have observed them.
We don't know as a certainty. We do know they got the facts amazingly correct everytime.
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Would you be willing to debate that in another thread :D
 
Intresting...

What purpose would it serve to enter discussion on a thread where the participant has already decided not to listen?
 
Saquist said:
Intresting...

What purpose would it serve to enter discussion on a thread where the participant has already decided not to listen?
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I hope to engage you in a debate you might actually know something about. As I pointed out in that thread your claim that the facts are perfect is false. Along with many of your other assumptions.
 
w1z4rd said:
I hope to engage you in a debate you might actually know something about. As I pointed out in that thread your claim that the facts are perfect is false. Along with many of your other assumptions.
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I've studied the Bible for a very long time because such is my religion to remain active in bible knowledge. I've engaged in teaching over a portion of those years and have taught those people that the inconsistancies that people are concerned about in the bible are apparent not actual. To come to that undersanding requires study and a certain amount of fore knowledge the tribes, custums and laws that impart understanding about differences in the gospel accounts and problems with translations that are used today.

When the moderator said he didn't wish for this to be "a bible study" I complied on this thread...because that's exactly what one would need....study about tribes customs, laws, and translations, near if not exceeding the college level.

One example was a fellow on the File Front Forums which gave me a similar challenge. I told him if I answered his first one I could answer them all.

http://forums.filefront.com/showthread.php?t=237536&page=351

I posted my response several days later. I took the first one only...And it turned out to be a translation issue...easily resolving the understanding between the two scriputres. All that because of one...word.

Re: Religious discussion thread

By Sedistix Saq, go ahead and have at those stark contradictions if you want, I’ll listen to you, and I’ll seriously contemplate your answers. Honestly I will.
Don’t mistake my hostilities towards religion as hostilities towards you, I dont mind you at all, I just despise your archaic views.
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I posted my response to just the very first one. He Litteraly had nothing to say afterwards. I don't have to go through that entire list to know that these scriptures are being misunderstood. My religion requres a certain amount knowledge to even participate in certain customs like our memorial of Christ Death...you term as the last supper. You may think the time of the super is in contradiction but I know precisely when and where that observance took place because we observe it every year on the evening (after sunset) on Nisan 14 according to the Jewish Lunar calendar. In fact the memorial service is coming up now and it doesn't correspond to popular belief.

This is just an example...
You need to study what you don't understand. That is in a way what I'm doing here. Gathering information on evolution from your perspectives. and it would seem that you and your cohorts believe that evolution and genetic engineering are the same thing.

This, an understanding I don't share. That's what I meant by inconsistancies in the evolutionary arguement and the widely encompassing circle people and scientist draw around for evolution.

It doesn't seem right.
 
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Saquist said:
Then get me back on the right track.
What is evolution? Is evolution happenstance or engineering?
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Evolution is a description of what's going on relative to a living thing and it's environment, and how it changes over time. It's neither engineering as humans know it, nor randomness.
 
spidergoat said:
Evolution is a description of what's going on relative to a living thing and it's environment, and how it changes over time. It's neither engineering as humans know it, nor randomness.
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However, it can involve both. IE, Artificial specitation.
 
I agree, if humans get involved, it complicates the standard model for how evolution works, but it's still an influence on evolution. Genetic engineering is the evolution of evolvability. Evolution produced beings that can control their own and other species' genetics. One day there will be beings that can design themselves, and a new kind of life will be born.
 
That's not the definition I've reviewed in Websters and Merriam's Dictionary

~It's neither but involves both? You agree with this?
The how is the process of evolution controled.?
 
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spidergoat said:
I agree, if humans get involved, it complicates the standard model for how evolution works, but it's still an influence on evolution. Genetic engineering is the evolution of evolvability. Evolution produced beings that can control their own and other species' genetics. One day there will be beings that can design themselves, and a new kind of life will be born.
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Our fiddling the the pig genome is clear evolution just as much as the virus that effects our genome. To call one natural and the other not would be strange.
 
Saquist said:
That's not the definition I've reviewed in Websters and Merriam's Dictionary

~It's neither but involves both? You agree with this?
The how is the process of evolution controled.?
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There are better definitions out there than the one I gave. Evolution is neither top-down active design by a complex agent, nor complete randomness. It is a passive mechanism that emerged from the conditions of early Earth, and it's probably universal.

Evolution is controlled by the structure of the genome. Through redundancy and other coded structures, an organism can control to some extent which parts of the genome tend to be mutated. This ability evolved due to the fact that genomes which could affect how it mutated would be better adapted to the environment.

This control is far from complete, and of course, it is oblivious to the organism. Organisms can also control their rates of mutation by limiting the kinds of foods they eat. A varied diet exposes one to more mutagens, so most organisms have specialized diets.
 
spidergoat said:
There are better definitions out there than the one I gave. Evolution is neither top-down active design by a complex agent, nor complete randomness. It is a passive mechanism that emerged from the conditions of early Earth, and it's probably universal.
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Yeah, I've reviewed several of those "better definitions". I must point out that yours is the most vague.

Explain: top-down active
Explain: what is the primary motivator of evolution.
Explain: Explain the complete totality of evolution in your own words.
Explain: What is not evolution.
Explain: From what stage in creature development does evolution begin.

Evolution is controlled by the structure of the genome. Through redundancy and other coded structures, an organism can control to some extent which parts of the genome tend to be mutated. This ability evolved due to the fact that genomes which could affect how it mutated would be better adapted to the environment.
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Has adaptation been observed to change on species into a completely different species?

This control is far from complete, and of course, it is oblivious to the organism. Organisms can also control their rates of mutation by limiting the kinds of foods they eat. A varied diet exposes one to more mutagens, so most organisms have specialized diets.
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How many of those mutations pass on to the offspring?

river-wind said:
it's not controlled, but driven by Natural Selection, as first proposed by Chalres Darwin and Alfred Wallace.
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How did they determine that natural selection could control evolution from one species to another?
 
I notice you are not defending your "perfect facts" in the other thread. Typical hypocrite.
 
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