Evolution - please explain

spuriousmonkey said:
I know that the 2nd law applies to closed systems. Which the earth is not.
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For the sake of trying to explain it more simply, I proposed that we first consider the Earth as a closed system. Obviously this was instantly rejected without even considering the aspects of therodynamics. But if you have been reading the replys above, I immediately replied "Okay, then let's consider the Earth as an open system and the Universe as the closed system." Still, no consideration of thermodynamics and nothing but condemnation, criticism, hostility, nit-picking rejection based on this-or-that subtle comment, and contemptuous antagonistic replies. These are supposed to be scientific forums, ya know?, where people are supposed to be objective. You yourself are guilty of outright denying thermodynamics as an explanation for evolution. A PhD student? What was your initial reply? Rejection without forethought! That's not representative of a person with an education at a doctorate level.
 
I brought up the explanation of the Second Law of Thermdynamics as a possible answer to roots' initial posting. Beyond any doubt, the 2nd Law is a plausable explanation! You guys have all condemned me for this without ANY investigation into its merits. This is bull.
 
Are you saying that you are speculating on a possible cause of evolution?
Because if you are, that is quite different. All I have heard from you up till now are self righteous declarations equivalent to 'this is a fact'. If you are saying you are speculating that the 2nd Law in some way moves evolution then I'll play ball. But that is not what has been coming across at all.
 
spuriousmonkey said:
You can propose all you want. It isn't closed.
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To consider the universe as a closed system makes the Second Law of Thermal Dynamics easy to explain the processes and forces and results of the diversity of life in evolution. To go beyond this is way far beyond the scope of biology and genetics and would belong in a physics forum. Nevertheless, it does not subtract from the beneficial explanations that it can be used to describe the underlying reasons and forces behind evolution.
 
Ophiolite said:
Are you saying that you are speculating on a possible cause of evolution?
Because if you are, that is quite different. All I have heard from you up till now are self righteous declarations equivalent to 'this is a fact'. If you are saying you are speculating that the 2nd Law in some way moves evolution then I'll play ball. But that is not what has been coming across at all.
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As I have already stated above, if you are looking for an explanation to the "cause," then you end up getting into arguments about cause and effect that are more in the realm of philosophy than science in the casual sense of the word. Depends on your context. Thermodyamics does provide an explanation for "cause" in evolution as it is a Law that applies to all reactions and systems.
 
spuriousmonkey said:
Life isn't universal. It is on the planet earth.
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Now you darn well know that you cannot prove that. What do you mean by "universal." Most people believe that there is extraterrestrial life
 
Valich, please , a simple yes or no answer.
Are you asserting that the role of thermodynamics as a cause of evolution is your speculation?Yes or No.
Are you asserting that the role of thermodynamics as a cause of evolution is main stream thinking? Yes or no.
 
Ophiolite said:
Valich, please , a simple yes or no answer.
Are you asserting that the role of thermodynamics as a cause of evolution is your speculation?Yes or No.
Are you asserting that the role of thermodynamics as a cause of evolution is main stream thinking? Yes or no.
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The word "cause" has many differnt conotations, so unless you be more specific using different terminology I cannot answer that. The Second Law of Thermodynamics provides an explanation for evolution and for the diversity of life that has evolved. Is that, or is that not what root is after in this forum?
 
spuriousmonkey said:
Most people also believe in god.

What do we care what most people believe.
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Again, you're missing the point, and refuse to define your question. We don't care about what people believe. What do you mean by "universal"?
 
The Second Law of Thermodynamics is a "process" that occurs throughout the universe. It is an explanatary law that can be used to also explain the "process" of evolution. Phenomena in Nature do not necessarily have to have a "cause." Shit happens. Especially in evolution where the main explanation for mutation is chance random mutations accumulated from generation-to-generation to provide adaptations to changes in the environment. How can you attribute a "cause" to chance random mutations?
 
valich said:
The word "cause" has many differnt conotations, so unless you be more specific using different terminology I cannot answer that. The Second Law of Thermodynamics provides an explanation for evolution and for the diversity of life that has evolved. Is that, or is that not what root is after in this forum?
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So, I'll try again. Is this explanation for evolution and for the diversity of life that has evolved your speculation or mainstream thinking.

Edit: Another way of saying this is "You used the f***ing word "cause". It's your connotation of "cause" that I am enquiring after. Stop being so f***ing obtuse. Every thread, almost every post, it's the same f***ing crap every time. Now ignore this and answer the simple question above.
 
valich said:
The Second Law of Thermodynamics is a "process" that occurs throughout the universe. It is an explanatary law that can be used to also explain the "process" of evolution. Phenomena in Nature do not necessarily have to have a "cause." Shit happens. Especially in evolution where the main explanation for mutation is chance random mutations accumulated from generation-to-generation to provide adaptations to changes in the environment. How can you attribute a "cause" to chance random mutations?
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The second law applies for all closed systems. Earth isn't a closed system.
 
spuriousmonkey said:
The second law applies for all closed systems. Earth isn't a closed system.
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I answered your post three times already. I said that I immediately replied, "Okay, then let's consider the Earth as an open system and the universe as a closed system."
 
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