Evolution--->(perfection?)----->CONFUSED?!?!

[Norsefire]

If there is more than one "realm of existence", it should be considered part of our own, unless there is no intersection whatsoever, which there is. It's basically a way to avoid the issue. You invent a non-intersecting space, and say the laws don't apply there, so you can't ask how THAT got there.

Science can describe the universe to within a microsecond of it's formation. If it can't describe what went before that, perhaps that is because no evidence remains. That makes it more difficult for you to show a reason why any kind of complex being existed before that.

However, it also shows that something must have lead to the formation of our universe; I believe that to be God.

 

[spidergoat]

If the baby universe is God, then so am I.

 

[Roman]

The living thing that happens to be better suited to the environment is able to make more copies of itself, thus influencing successive generations.

Though not necessarily true. Disadvantageous traits can go to fixation, given drift.

Effective populations of invertebrates, plants, and vertebrates are estimated to be around one to two hundred thousand from heterozygosity calculations, which is far smaller than the infinite population required for your statement to hold true for all cases.

Natural selection isn't always the explanation for why a trait persists in a population. Sometimes, it's just chance.

 

[Crunchy Cat]

I hear what you say but cannot help wondering how commited he was to his earlier beliefs, Nonetheless, you have made your point. It's nice to be proved wrong in this instance.

Now , if only you could get Adstar to changes his ways, I woulde buy you a year's supply of whisky, or whatever your tipple is.

Adstar unfortunately doesn't appear to be influencible with truth. That is, if every word in the bible was conclusively proven false he would still believe. It's a natural human behavior to value psychological needs above truth and Adstar is an extreme example of it.

 

[Crunchy Cat]

Science can certainly make progress, but I think there is no doubt the universe was somehow created: either via a natural force (of which then would be impossible, because natural forces would need to be created), or more likely because of that a God.

All models of what's 'outside' or 'before' our universe show a vast reality which is essentially an eternal everchanging presence of information. Time appears to be something specific to our universe so its hard to imagine something as being eternal in the absence of time. The most probable resolution of course is that not all change requires time.

It isn't. I believe as I do because of the mere fact that I exist........when existence cannot be defined or measured, how can I exist? But I do, therefore I was created.
...
...
...
And lastly, again, how did existence come into existence when even nothing did not exist?

How you can exist is a well known process of evolution. How existence can exist isn't necessarily a valid question. It might be better to ask the question: can 'nothing' (i.e. the absence of anything) exist? Clearly there are no instances of 'nothing' that anyone can point to; thus, suggesting that 'something' must always exist.

There is plenty reason. He could wish to see who is faithful and who is not.

That's equivalent to searching for the stupid people so he can reward them. There would be no rational motivation for it.

Secondly, while I myself am not very religious, I do believe Faith is an extremely important aspect of society as it gives identity, morality, it gives anticipation and goals, and it gives you something to live for.

Faith serves as a substitute for personal identity and can improve your chance of survival if you believe there is a threat and take action to protect yourself (regardless of whether or not the threat is real or not). Morality is culturally influenced and genetically rooted in the primary question humans use to judge each other: "is that person mean?". Humans are genetically prone to want to persist and that's the genetic root of having something to live for.

For all we know, God is very real.

While the concept of a generic 'God' might have equal probability of existing as the zaboombafoo dimension, any specific human claims of a 'God' existing are demonstrably false.

 

[James R]

Norsefire:

Again, you are missing the point. That law defines something which is already present, but does not explain its origin or how it exists.

And saying "God make it exist" only pushes the question back one step, so we then need to ask "Why does God exist?" instead of "What does this law exist?"

God gets us nowhere in this inquiry.

The scientist may explain how that around him works, but not how or why it exists. He may tell you interesting facts, but he cannot tell you their origin or how they are.

The scientist's explanations are a hundred times more helpful and informative than the imam's. With religion, everything is reduced to "God must have done it. We don't know how, and we don't need to know. All we need to know about it God."

If the answer to everything you don't know is "God did it" or "God caused it" or "God wants it" or "It's God's plan", then you have no agency in the world. You might as well just curl up and let God do what he wants with you, because you'll never really know anything.

The only plausible explanation (where stuff does not simply "pop up") is a Creator

But stuff simply "pops up" with a Creator, too. The Creator is supposed to just will stuff to exist, and there it is. How is that a better explanation for where stuff came from than formation out of nothing?

Compare: "God created the universe" to "Nothing created the universe". How could we tell the difference by looking at the universe?

 

[LiveInFaith]

The scientist's explanations are a hundred times more heelpful and informative than the imam's. With religion, everything is reduced to "God must have done it. We don't know how, and we don't need to know. All we need to know about it God."

This is exaggerated.
Believing God created universe, doesn't prevent the quest of how this universe come into existing.

If the answer to everything you don't know is "God did it" or "God caused it" or "God wants it" or "It's God's plan", then you have no agency in the world. You might as well just curl up and let God do what he wants with you, because you'll never really know anything.

Another exaggerated and too simplistic assumption you made on people believing in God.