Evolution is wack;God is the only way that makes sense!

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wynn

Bottomline, everyone who is not mad believes in some kind of design.
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More total non-sense. Nature is not designed, it evolves according to the laws of the Universe. That includes life. There is no gaol, no plan, no design evident anywhere in this Universe. You may be limited in being able to accept this, but not all are so limited and they can appreciate the Universe on it's own terms without needing the crutch of a designer to keep them from falling over(mentally, that is).

Grumpy:cool:
 
Bottomline, everyone who is not mad believes in some kind of design.
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I think what this really means is 'everyone who does not believe as wynn does is mad'.
 
wynn said:
Sure. Some people, such as yourself, believe in that kind of design.

Bottomline, everyone who is not mad believes in some kind of design.
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The issue here is that people, such as myself, do not consider natural processes such as evolution to be a "kind of design".

So grouping such people under those who believe in design will probably irk some.

The usual split is between those who believe there is a designer (intelligent or otherwise) and those who don't. And without a designer it is questionable whether there can be design.
 
Sarkus said:
The issue here is that people, such as myself, do not consider natural processes such as evolution to be a "kind of design".

So grouping such people under those who believe in design will probably irk some.

The usual split is between those who believe there is a designer (intelligent or otherwise) and those who don't. And without a designer it is questionable whether there can be design.
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If you think that such things

1033109.jpg


are useful and that a doctor can use it to understand the workings of your particular body, then you (two) believe in some kind of design.
 
Grumpy said:
More total non-sense. Nature is not designed, it evolves according to the laws of the Universe. That includes life. There is no gaol, no plan, no design evident anywhere in this Universe. You may be limited in being able to accept this, but not all are so limited and they can appreciate the Universe on it's own terms without needing the crutch of a designer to keep them from falling over(mentally, that is).
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Ye'r full-a-shit. :shrug:

I'm not going to defend against your argumetns against a stance that I never held.
 
Wynn, you are deliberately being vague and using semantics to make a "non-point" and consider it a win for yourself.
Cute.
Why not challenge yourself a little bit...
Since Jan hasn't been around, why not take up the torch?
Address each question or statement in post number 17 :)
 
Neverfly said:
Wynn, you are deliberately being vague and using semantics to make a "non-point" and consider it a win for yourself.
Cute.
Why not challenge yourself a little bit...
Since Jan hasn't been around, why not take up the torch?
Address each question or statement in post number 17 :)
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Wasn't this guy banned before? Lol. I dunno why he got unbanned.
 
wynn said:
If you think that such things
...
are useful and that a doctor can use it to understand the workings of your particular body, then you (two) believe in some kind of design.
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That's the crux, Wynn: what you see as "some kind of design", others see as nothing of the sort... unless you wish to define "design" as being able to be carried out without a "designer"?

If you want to include the natural unguided process of evolution as "some kind of design" then you're probably including within your understanding of "design" what others do not.

I'm not saying either is a right or wrong view of what it means to be "designed" - but they are different - and in the context of religious discussion I would consider it appropriate to be quite clear by what you mean as "design".
 
The dividing line between Evolution and Creation begins about 6000-10,000 years ago. Rather than take sides, the way I approached this was to investigate what happened historically at that time based on science evidence. This is in the time range when human civilization begins. This is when humans drastically alter behavior and learn to control their environment. This changes the environmental parameters behind evolution.

Before the change into civilization, the environment played a far more significant role in evolution, since humans lived off the natural landscape. But after the change into civilization, there is more willful reliability in the environment due to invention and technology. What we have is the human mind developing the capability to override some of the parameters of previous evolution. For example, apes don't live in groups of thousands.

The human DNA would be essentially the same, before and after the transition, but the human mind was very different, with enhanced human will power able to override the instincts inscribed in the DNA. The creationists see this modern human (civilization) as the starting point of creation. This is based on the criteria of the mind, while evolution is less concerned about the mind and focuses on the DNA as the underlying standard.

I tend to separate the DNA at prehuman (don't have the civilization mind) and human (with the civilization mind ). I can accept the process of slow evolution from simple chemicals into replicators, into cells into multicellular, etc. But I also see the transition into a new breed of humans, with free will, who can repress, pervert, distort and advance the instincts of the DNA. The DNA loses it lead role in terms of what is driving the changes within human history. Before civilization the DNA was leading but at creation the mind is leading.
 
wellwisher said:
The dividing line between Evolution and Creation begins about 6000-10,000 years ago. Rather than take sides, the way I approached this was to investigate what happened historically at that time based on science evidence. This is in the time range when human civilization begins. This is when humans drastically alter behavior and learn to control their environment. This changes the environmental parameters behind evolution.

Before the change into civilization, the environment played a far more significant role in evolution, since humans lived off the natural landscape. But after the change into civilization, there is more willful reliability in the environment due to invention and technology. What we have is the human mind developing the capability to override some of the parameters of previous evolution. For example, apes don't live in groups of thousands.

The human DNA would be essentially the same, before and after the transition, but the human mind was very different, with enhanced human will power able to override the instincts inscribed in the DNA. The creationists see this modern human (civilization) as the starting point of creation. This is based on the criteria of the mind, while evolution is less concerned about the mind and focuses on the DNA as the underlying standard.

I tend to separate the DNA at prehuman (don't have the civilization mind) and human (with the civilization mind ). I can accept the process of slow evolution from simple chemicals into replicators, into cells into multicellular, etc. But I also see the transition into a new breed of humans, with free will, who can repress, pervert, distort and advance the instincts of the DNA. The DNA loses it lead role in terms of what is driving the changes within human history. Before civilization the DNA was leading but at creation the mind is leading.
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If any of this was accurate in any way- You'd be on to something.

Since it isn't, you're not.
 
I asked a relatively simple question which was ''why don't you think we are a product of Intelligent design. All the answer requires is a response from THE INDIVIDUAL. I didn't ask what you think the evidence is, and so no links are necessary.

This is the religion forum, so thinking for yourselves as individuals is a requirement.

So again. Why do YOU think we're not a product of intelligent design?

jan.
 
Jan Ardena said:
I asked a relatively simple question which was ''why don't you think we are a product of Intelligent design. All the answer requires is a response from THE INDIVIDUAL. I didn't ask what you think the evidence is, and so no links are necessary.

This is the religion forum, so thinking for yourselves as individuals is a requirement.

So again. Why do YOU think we're not a product of intelligent design?

jan.
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I think we're not a product of intelligent design.

Now that this individual has made his opinion known, and since having to support such things requires no evidence...

I believe that a wild gaggle of galactic geese flew through our primitive solar system. Prior to reaching this here lil' ol' blue velour marble, they stopped at the Wil Wheaton Planet and ate a whole lotta grain.

Well, when you eat, something else must happen...
Out with the old; In with the new!

Since they "seeded" Earth with fertilizer and grain bits from the Wheaton planet, all that DNA (mixed with viruses from Venus that blew over here from solar wind...) sprouted up as our ancestors, eventually culminating in the chosen and Pinnacle species: Us.
Created in Gods image.
Namely, Wil Wheaton. He still visits us, time to time, for laughs. He doesn't answer prayers anymore but he does give autographs.

Except to Satan (a.k.a. Sheldon Cooper) from whom he accepts challenges (Job) but always wins.

Since, as you say, this is the Religion forum; I thunk it all up as an individual and I'm totally correct and don't need to support my conclusions.

On second thought... I think I'll mosey on over to a scientifical forum. Things make more sense over there.
 
Neverfly said:
Since, as you say, this is the Religion forum; I thunk it all up as an individual and I'm totally correct and don't need to support my conclusions.
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Telling interpretation of what introspection and individualism are supposedly about.
 
wynn said:
And why is that proof that teeth have not been intelligently designed?

IOW, you'll need to show why intelligent design would necessarily mean that material things be everlasting.
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Right after you show me the intelligent designer.
 
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