Evidence that God is real

Acitnoids said:
The Wisdom of the crowds says; If you ask enough people a mundane trivial question such as: How many beans are there in a jar or, as Francis Galton asked; How much does this ox weigh. If you average out the guesses of all that participate you will arrive at (nearly) the correct answer.
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Nearly correct is not correct. Physically counting them without eating any, that's when you get "correct".
"The Wisdom of the Masses"
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is an oxymoron, IMO.

The decline in average IQ of population masses over time.
world_IQ_over_time.gif

http://uhaweb.hartford.edu/brbaker/

And how does this relate to the OP? Theocracy increases IQ?
 
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Write4U said:
Nearly correct is not correct.
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If that is your stance than you haven't been keeping track of the physical quantities we call "constants". The accuracy of these quantities are constantly being refinded. You just heard about the new standard for the kilogram yes?

Nothing is EXACTLY correct, not even our physical constants. Uncertainty is just part of measurement and data collection.
 
Write4U said:
is an oxymoron, IMO.

The decline in average IQ of population masses over time.
world_IQ_over_time.gif

http://uhaweb.hartford.edu/brbaker/

And how does this relate to the OP? Theocracy increases IQ?
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This was the exact point Francis Galton was trying to prove when he formed his experiment to find out if the crowd could guess the oxes weight. His own experiment proved himself wrong and proved statistical analysis as a new way of analyzing data.
 
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Acitnoids said:
If that is your stance then you haven't been keeping track of the physical quantities we call "constants". The accuracy of these quantities are constantly being refined. You just heard about the new standard for the kilogram yes?

Nothing is EXACTLY correct, not even our physical constants. Uncertainty is just part of measurement and data collection.
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Universal physical constants (values and functions) are EXACTLY correct.

All human symbolic mathematical inventions are approximate interpretations of universal values and functions. The universe does not work with human symbolic language. We do.

Much as different alphanumeric languages are approximations of human verbal and written communication. The medium humans use for verbal communication is "sound waves", grunts and clicks. Our written languages are symbolic representations of those grunts and clicks.
Ever heard Swedish? Ever heard Khoisan
This time, it's language that gives it away — specifically, those languages with the clicks in them. They're called Khoi-San (or Khoisan) languages, there aren't many of them and they are spoken only in the southern part of Africa in the Kalahari Desert, except for a couple of outliers up in Tanzania.
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https://www.theroot.com/what-africas-click-tongues-tell-of-our-origins-1790863576

Our symbolisms have nothing to do with uncertainty. Universal mathematics are abstractions inherent in the fabric of spacetime itself, and can only be humanly represented through human symbolic language, which we have named the "mathematics" of the universe, and on the whole human mathematics are pretty accurate , being that the universe only works with "whole" quantitative units.
 
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Acitnoids said:
His own experiment proved himself wrong and proved statistical analysis as a new way of analyzing data.
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Seems to me, from the chart that statistical data suggests a lowering of personal knowledge and processing IQ. We are beginning to rely on computers more and more, until we are reduced to ordering the computer to solve even the simplest problems.

A car mechanic used to listen to the engine and diagnose the correct necessary adjustments. Today we hook the car up to a computer, which tells us what it "hears" (electronically).
 
Write4U said:
Universal physical constants (values and functions) are EXACTLY correct.

All human symbolic mathematical inventions are approximate interpretations of universal values and functions. The universe does not work with human symbolic language. We do.

Much as different alphanumeric languages are approximations of human verbal and written communication. The medium humans use for verbal communication is "sound waves", grunts and clicks. Our written languages are symbolic representations of those grunts and clicks.
Ever heard Swedish? Ever heard Khoisan
https://www.theroot.com/what-africas-click-tongues-tell-of-our-origins-1790863576

Our symbolisms have nothing to do with uncertainty. Universal mathematics are abstractions inherent in the fabric of spacetime itself, and can only be humanly represented through human symbolic language, which we have named the "mathematics" of the universe, and on the whole human mathematics are pretty accurate , being that the universe only works with whole quantitative units.
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Thank you for the clarification but that is not what I replied to. What does this have to do with the O.P.

I gave a solid example from the father of statistical analysis as a hypothetical example for some sort of "proof" for a higher being. You said nothing one way or the other for or against "the wisdom of the masses" as a statistical analytical bases for our current understanding of statistics in accordance to the views of worldwide "belief" for a higher power.

I may agree with you but drop the ego and read what is being presented.
 
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Acitnoids said:
Thank you for the clarification but that is not what I replied to. What does this have to do with the O.P.

I gave a solid example from the father of statistical analysis as a hypothetical example for some sort of "proof" for a higher being. You said nothing one way or the other for or against "the wisdom of the masses" as a statistical analytical bases for our current understanding of statistics.

I may agree with with you but drop the ego and read what is being presented.
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I am arguing against your posit that any of your "wisdom of the masses" suggests the necessity for a "higher being". IMHO

You see, I do not belong to one of the religious masses. I belong to the atheist masses and our combined wisdom is as valid as the combined wisdom of theists.
 
Write4U said:
I am arguing against your posit that any of your "wisdom of the masses" suggests the necessity for a "higher being". IMHO

You see, I do not belong to one of the religious masses. I belong to the atheist masses and our combined wisdom is as valid as the combined wisdom of theists.
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Acitnoids said:
Last I checked, more people in the world believe some sort of "higher power" exist than do not believe. If the 'Wisdom of the Masses' (a form of statistical analysis) holds true then that chalks one up for there being something out there as opposed to nothing
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"Higher power" is a meaningless phrase. Every culture has a best guess to explain mysteries such as their origin story, and they are all different. You can't average disparate mythologies. It's fairly trivial that powerful forces are considered "higher" or "beyond" daily experience.
 
spidergoat said:
"Higher power" is a meaningless phrase. Every culture has a best guess to explain mysteries such as their origin story, and they are all different. You can't average disparate mythologies. It's fairly trivial that powerful forces are considered "higher" or "beyond" daily experience.
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Write4U said:
"Higher being" is even more trivial, IMO.....:)
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"Higher power"

AND

"Higher being"

Both are incorrect terminology for the correct technical term

Stuff that cannot be explained

:)
 
Acitnoids said:
If the 'Wisdom of the Masses' (a form of statistical analysis) holds true then that chalks one up for there being something out there as opposed to nothing.
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Well one wonders why we spend money on scientific research when we could simply conduct a survey.

"Do you think the Higgs particle exists or not?"...News. After conducting an extensive survey the scientists at Cern have counted the votes and are able to report that 80% of those asked said there was no Higgs particle. The scientists said that this was indeed an unexpected result and inconsistent with their findings but recognise the mob is always right and have dropped Prof Higgs paper in the bin.

Further the scientists at the "Is there a God research center" are happy to report that as a result of their latest survey they can say there is indeed a God". They plan to further refine their research by asking the mob various questions that will give a clear picture of what God expects of humans and exactly how he created the universe.

Sure the power of the mob will give us the answers.


And all the speculation about God and his attributes is little more than putting opinion to a vote...rather than apply "logic" and obtain the answer "logic tells us there must be a creator" why not...and this is certainly a crazy way to determine reality...why not work on the facts that provide evidence of God.

Now I will start it off ...

We can establish there is a god due to the following facts.
Fact number one....

Over to you...fact one would be?...

No the results of a survey can not be considered useful to determine a fact...

As George C says...what a pity humans have given away their unique power of reason and gone with superstition...we could have been so much more yet we opt for bullshit.

Look how long this thread has gone and as usual nothing comes of it.

The universe is eternal and as such was not created ...that means no creator...all over we can all go home.

Alternative??? there is an eternal being who poped out of eternity after goodness knows how long to "create a universe" just for humans...sure ...isnt it funny folk cant accept the notion of a eternal universe but readily accept the notion of an eternal being...oh you cant have an eternal universe as that would be just silly...but you could have an eternal being who pops out of eternity to create a universe...sure he exists and that removes the crazy notion of an eternal universe...ok lets settle it once and for all...put it to a vote.

Alex
 
Michael 345 said:
Higher power"

AND

"Higher being"
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Made up terms with no foundation based on observation.

There can only be a higher power or a higher being if it can be shown to exist...are we to build reality on stupid stuff we can only imagine?

You are correct ... if one does not know that gives no licence to just make up crap.

The trouble is folk are brainwashed at an early age and believe the superstitious nonsence they are programmed with...and reason and logic is now beyond them.
They are forced to find excuses rather than just accept they have been wrong...well most folk cant accept that they could be wrong and so fight to show they are not wrong...few stop and ask upon what evidence do I rely upon to justify my superstitious outlook but continue to reject facts and observation to preserve the illusion they have not been sadly conned by those they trust.

So how did this or that happen...good answer...well I dont know...top marks...

God did it...absolute fail...

So sad that people dont know stuff but they dont know they dont know and worse still can not simply say...well I dont know.

How much more acceptable than to make up a bullshit answer and go with that and if questioned about what facts produce such a conclusion to say..Hey you cant ask me for facts as that is my faith ... and then not to recognise the only reason you use faith is because you dont have one single fact that supports your crazy made up notion.

And most of these folk insist they talk to the lord...and no doubt would be concerned if their kid wanted a place set at dinner for their new imaginary friend Roger.

Anyways if they chat with the lord perhaps they should set a place for the lord and Roger.

The new testament is founded on a lie, a lie that was distilled from countless other lies of humans being Gods all based on astrollogy moreover a theft from Sun whorship...at least the Old Testament can be viewed as a book of early folk trying to contruct a system of law.

And worst of all few ever read their good book...read it I say...if you think it is so wonderful well read it.

There is no excuse its not in Latin anymore so read it...


Alex
 
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spidergoat said:
"Higher power" is a meaningless phrase. Every culture has a best guess to explain mysteries such as their origin story, and they are all different. You can't average disparate mythologies. It's fairly trivial that powerful forces are considered "higher" or "beyond" daily experience.
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Exactly. I know this is hard for Atheists and Theist alike to comprehend. As an agnostic I was simply trying to separate the current notion if a "god" from religious theology. Too many people hear the word "god" and automatically connect it to religion. I think religion is hogwash period.

I make no claims for there being a god or not but one thing I am sure of, if one does exist (which doesn't seem to be the case) then we as humans have no clue what that may be. All myths are just stories and simply reflect what we all think of when we hear the word god.
 
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You do make a claim about a God not existing. You clearly think the gods of all the religions are false. You are more of an atheist than I am, since I can't make that claim. I just don't know they are true.
 
Write4U said:
Seems to me, from the chart that statistical data suggests a lowering of personal knowledge and processing IQ.
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It shows all demographic categories and geographical regions have rising IQ scores.

It also shows that the IQ test probably has something wrong with it as an "intelligence" quotient or measure - it correlates with matters not mechanistically related to any reasonable concept of intelligence.
 
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