Evidence that God is real

[billvon]

In short, you have to go through scripture.

Yes, scripture is "jam packed" with examples. And yet you have still not been able to list a single one. You have failed completely.

The theist doth protest too much, methinks.

 

[spidergoat]

It's Jan's stupid argument all over again. Theists can have knowledge of God and atheists can't. But what they don't admit is that verification is still required in order to distinguish knowledge from delusion. How do you know the thing you believe through whatever religious tradition is true?

 

[kx000]

It's Jan's stupid argument all over again. Theists can have knowledge of God and atheists can't. But what they don't admit is that verification is still required in order to distinguish knowledge from delusion. How do you know the thing you believe through whatever religious tradition is true?

You wouldn't be mad at God at all if he let you go to hell? Dis-belief may or may not be worse than skepticism. Why not go to Heaven based on knowing and not have to burn... and reserve Doubt for the worst of the worst. Science upholds knowledge, faith gives us truth.

 

[Michael 345]

faith gives us truth.

I have faith I can fly off this cliff

Weeeeeeeeeeee

Splat

Shite. But at least now I know that science knowledge would tell me how I could fly and faith makes shite up

 

[Musika]

Why would you trust an alien overlord to give reliable information about itself? How to Cook Forty Humans comes to mind.

Is that some sort of Trump joke?

 

[Musika]

We have our answer. You couldn't do it.

In this case, it is not me who owns the limitation.

 

[Musika]

It's Jan's stupid argument all over again. Theists can have knowledge of God and atheists can't.

I am not sure how that works.
Technically an atheist requires to have no knowledge (as in realization, which is the whole thrust of this discussion about evidence arising from prescriptive measures) in order to identify as such.

But what they don't admit is that verification is still required in order to distinguish knowledge from delusion. How do you know the thing you believe through whatever religious tradition is true?

Through appllication of course. So then it boils down to discerning valid from invalid practices as they pertain to goals.

 

[Musika]

So really it's all just belief, and no knowledge whatsoever.

If that was the case, there would be no need to go beyond mere definitions in scripture.

First you have to believe that God exists, otherwise you can't begin to understand what is God according to how God defines Himself.

Sure.
You could say that is first.
Pretty much all knowable issues begin like that. If you don't believe it will rain, you won't pack an umbrella, and so forth.

For if you don't believe God exists then who is it that is telling you what is God?

What to speak of applying the means that grants discernment on the nature of God.

The same goes for the means for approaching God, for identifying saintly persons, for understanding "the goal", etc.
It is all predicated on already believing that God exists.
Because if you don't believe that God exists then there is no authority behind the scripture.
Everything is just one man telling another man.

If you don't have any notable degree of faith in a field of knowledge, it stands to reason that the catalysts that empower such a field will also be neglected. Very few interviewees get admitted to competitive universities by expressing their impatient distaste for the field and the institution they are applying to.

Of course it is unacceptable to atheists.
People are called foreigners because they don't come from your country.
It's not a matter of not accepting that your country is great, or better than their own.
It is simply a matter of definition: they don't come from your country - thus they are foreigners.

I'm not sure on the connection you are trying to draw with foreigners. Unlike foreigners, atheists have very clear and apparent views that they choose to establish or maintain in order to remain as such.

Your epistemology requires belief in God from the outset.
It in fact relies on the circularity of it.
Believe in God and you will believe that you know God.
But where is the actual demonstration of the truth of it?
Or is it just all belief?

If that was the case, why talk of prescriptive measures in pursuit of goals?

 

[kx000]

I have faith I can fly off this cliff

Weeeeeeeeeeee

Splat

Shite. But at least now I know that science knowledge would tell me how I could fly and faith makes shite up

There is nothing wrong with putting forth a scientific effort and proving a belief.

 

[Musika]

Yes. Morality.

Were we discussing epistemological authority or something else?

It's the instant recognition of a long observed religious delusion. How do you know God isn't just in your head?

By practice of course.
This is why atheists have no recourse to anything outside of their head and struggle immensely to establish a position beyond being a mere reactionary subset of religion.

 

[billvon]

How do you know God isn't just in your head?

By practice of course.

I guess if you practice enough you can believe anything. Some people really, honestly believe the earth is flat.

 

[Musika]

I guess if you practice enough you can believe anything. Some people really, honestly believe the earth is flat.

What are flat earthers practicing?

 

[Michael 345]

There is nothing wrong with putting forth a scientific effort and proving a belief.

So how did having faith and believing I could fly off the cliff provide any truth?

Seems like I killed myself because of my faith. Which is a twist on religion which frequently kills believers in other regions for having a different belief

 

[billvon]

What are flat earthers practicing?

An unshakable, theist-like belief in a flat earth.

 

[spidergoat]

Were we discussing epistemological authority or something else?

If morality isn't the authority, then I don't care what they have to say about anything.

By practice of course.
This is why atheists have no recourse to anything outside of their head and struggle immensely to establish a position beyond being a mere reactionary subset of religion.

Practice of delusional beliefs only reinforces delusion. How do you know it's not a delusion without evidence? Atheism is perfectly compatible with empiricism, which is not just reactionary to religious doctrine but actually superior.

 

[Musika]

An unshakable, theist-like belief in a flat earth.

You are just talking of ideas that have no practical element. No doubt you feel the same about theism, which would explain your reluctance to click on links and whatnot.

 

[Musika]

If morality isn't the authority, then I don't care what they have to say about anything.

Ok.
So you did just change the topic.

Practice of delusional beliefs only reinforces delusion. How do you know it's not a delusion without evidence?

By practice in pursuit of prescriptive descriptions .... the same as practically any claim you could care to mention.

Atheism is perfectly compatible with empiricism, which is not just reactionary to religious doctrine but actually superior.

Bollocks

 

[Capracus]

What are flat earthers practicing?

Willful ignorance of the present state of justifiable knowledge.

 

[Musika]

Willful ignorance of the present state of justifiable knowledge.

Ditto previous response to billvon

 

[iceaura]

Through appllication of course. So then it boils down to discerning valid from invalid practices as they pertain to goals.

Which requires presenting the practice and methods of application, and the goals, for discerning examination.
Something you will never do.

I provided a link to 4 different categories of examples

And failed to present a single one of those examples.

Do you think christians never spend time looking at issues of what it means to be a good/effective christian?

Of course they do. Now back to the topic - evidence that God is real.