Evidence of Hell.

[Xelasnave.1947]

I know I am asking for evidence of something I already reject so that may put off true believers participating.

However I am interested to know where the concept of hell comes from.

Also who can look forward to hell?
Only believers who are guilty of sin?
If you don't believe and presumable don't have guilt in your heart (mind) can you be guilty of any sin and therefore escape judgement?

Has anyone gone to hell and come back like we hear of folk going down the tunnel and seeing the light.

Could the light be the fires of hell?

Alex

 

[cluelusshusbund]

Has anyone gone to hell and come back like we hear of folk going down the tunnel and seeing the light.

I dreamed that i was in hell... an i was in a line to jump in a swimmin pool... an when i got close i knew that it was acid an not water in the pool... but i jumped in when it was my turn an i coud feel my skin start to become warm... but insted of gettin worser it started to feel good an i had a good time swimmin (i love to swim).!!!

I once made a strobe-effect light cause a magazine said some people will see perty colors at a certan frequency... an when i stared into that light a little bit the next thang i remember was settin at the table tellin some kin-folk that i felt just fine.!!!
It was weird findin myself suddenly talkin to some people that i didnt know had come over... lol.!!!

Mayb the devil was tryin to get me :-(

 

[Xelasnave.1947]

Mayb the devil was tryin to get me :-(

No you have been blessed with being given a scripture.
Surely it means if you do what feels good you shall dwell in your living room.
Gather round its a miracle I tell ya.

Alex

 

[cluelusshusbund]

No you have been blessed with being given a scripture.
Surely it means if you do what feels good you shall dwell in your living room.
Gather round its a miracle I tell ya.

Thats odd... i suddenly thirst for a nice tall glass of Kool-Aid

 

[geordief]

"Hell" was the use of (mis) information to encourage a particular kind of behaviour in potential members of a group.

It reminds me a bit of the way social ostracism is used to similar effect.

Modern Christian teaching does not necessarily rely on punishments or tortures . It is enough ,according to them to be "out of the golden circle" of those privileged to supposedly commune with god.

No doubt this is but one way the concept of "hell" has been used. Punishment is a common enough practice in society and so it is natural for any belief system to find a place for something along those lines (permanent punishment is a bit of an "embellishment" ,mind you)

 

[Jan Ardena]

I know I am asking for evidence of something I already reject so that may put off true believers participating.

You do?
We may?

However I am interested to know where the concept of hell comes from.

Duality.

Also who can look forward to hell?

Are you interested?

If you don't believe and presumable don't have guilt in your heart (mind) can you be guilty of any sin and therefore escape judgement?

Typical atheist question.
What do you think sin is?

Has anyone gone to hell and come back like we hear of folk going down the tunnel and seeing the light.

There's at least one account on you tube.

Could the light be the fires of hell?

I doubt it.

Jan.

 

[James R]

What do you think sin is?

That's a good question.

In another thread, I suggested that a sin is an insult to God - i.e. behaviour of which God does not approve.

Do you think that's a fair definition?

What do you think sin is?

 

[C C]

[...] Also who can look forward to hell? [...] Has anyone gone to hell [...]

What better perdition or insane asylum than one where the inmates usually do not want to escape, thereby no guards are necessary. Wherein the condemned residents perversely savor the oscillating ebbs and tides of their suffering, desiring to prolong it as long as possible.

"Maybe this world is another planet's Hell." --attributed to Aldous Huxley in Peter's Quotations: Ideas for Our Time ... (1979), by Laurence J. Peter

Quotes that become clichés often do so because of the widespread practicality of their metaphor or what they discern, posit, or suggest.

 

[Jan Ardena]

What do you think sin is

Here's a good place to start...

https://www.google.co.uk/search?cli...n&source=browser-suggest&qsubts=1478098979380

Jan.

 

[Yazata]

My guess is that hell arose as an ethical idea, as the result of people's desire to believe that reality is fundamentally fair.

If it was, then it would have to have some answer to prospering sinners who behave abominably but nevertheless live long and comfortable lives. (Think of political leaders.) Why does that happen while many exceedingly good, compassionate and humane people live short and painful lives?

So the idea of postmortem judgement arises, the idea that everyone inevitably gets what they truly deserve. The prospering sinner will inevitably experience punishment while the suffering saint will certainly receive a just reward.

 

[Baldeee]

Duality.

Of which two things?
Or do you mean it arose as a concept because of the need for a counterpoint to the paradise of heaven?

What do you think sin is?

You have offered a start, but would you care to expand on it, please?

There's at least one account on you tube.

Do you have a link?
And do you believe the account?

I doubt it.

Why do you doubt it?
Do you think it is the light of heaven, perhaps?
Or simply some neurobiological phenomenon?

 

[Jan Ardena]

My guess is that hell arose as an ethical idea, as the result of people's desire to believe that reality is fundamentally fair.

How did people's desire arise, let alone the desire to believe in fundamental fairness?

If it was, then it would have to have some answer to prospering sinners who behave abominably but nevertheless live long and comfortable lives. (Think of political leaders.) Why does that happen while many exceedingly good, compassionate and humane people live short and painful lives?

What is sin, and how do you guesss it's arrival?

Jan.

 

[Baldeee]

I know I am asking for evidence of something I already reject so that may put off true believers participating.

However I am interested to know where the concept of hell comes from.

If you are referring to the concept of Hell as a fiery place of torment as imagined by the Christians, for example, then this is quite possibly because the original Greek word for hell (Gehenna, or Ge'enna) was phonetically linked to the valley of Hinnom, a place just outside Jerusalem that was considered to be the place of final punishment for the ungodly, a valley filled with idolaters, human sacrifices to the god Moloch by burning, and general unpleasantness.
It was considered to be a cursed place and the destination of the wicked.
So when the authors of the biblical texts were looking for a word to use for hell, they used a place-name (or something very similar to it) that would conjure up the images of a place renowned for its unpleasantness.
The fiery images coming from the sacrifices.
That's one possibility at least.

 

[Jan Ardena]

Of which two things?
Or do you mean it arose as a concept because of the need for a counterpoint to the paradise of heaven?

An instance of opposition or contrast between two concepts or two aspects of something; a dualism.

Do you have a link?
And do you believe the account?

In answer to your first question...

https://www.google.co.uk/search?client=ms-android-h3g-gb&hl=en-GB&oe=utf-8&safe=images&q=nde's hell&source=browser-suggest&qsubts=1478103358328

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=nde's hell&client=ms-android-h3g-gb&hl=en-GB&prmd=vsni&source=lnms&tbm=vid&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj1l4rivIrQAhWHK8AKHTAYCeQQ_AUIBygB&biw=360&bih=561

...knock yourself out.

Your second question is irrelevant.

Why do you doubt it?
Do you think it is the light of heaven, perhaps?
Or simply some neurobiological phenomenon?

Where do you think this line of questioning will lead, given the OP?

Jan.

 

[Jan Ardena]

If you are referring to the concept of Hell as a fiery place of torment as imagined by the Christians, for example, then this is quite possibly because the original Greek word for hell (Gehenna, or Ge'enna) was phonetically linked to the valley of Hinnom, a place just outside Jerusalem that was considered to be the place of final punishment for the ungodly, a valley filled with idolaters, human sacrifices to the god Moloch by burning, and general unpleasantness.
It was considered to be a cursed place and the destination of the wicked.
So when the authors of the biblical texts were looking for a word to use for hell, they used a place-name (or something very similar to it) that would conjure up the images of a place renowned for its unpleasantness.
The fiery images coming from the sacrifices.
That's one possibility at least.

Do you have a link for that?
Also, do you believe that account?

Jan.

 

[cluelusshusbund]

Modern Christian teaching does not necessarily rely on punishments or tortures . It is enough ,according to them to be "out of the golden circle" of those privileged to supposedly commune with god.

When pressed on this issue ive been told thangs like... a torturous burnin hell only lasts for a realitively short time... certanly not for eternity which woud be monstrous... or... hell is meerly the absence of God which is a horrible existance.!!!
So... its not monstrous if a lovin father sets you on fire for only a short time... or isolates you in a place so horrible that you had rather be dead

In Concluson:::

Smearin lipstick on the notion of hell dont relieve bible-God from bein a monster.!!!

 

[geordief]

When pressed on this issue ive been told thangs like... a torturous burnin hell only lasts for a realitively short time... certanly not for eternity which woud be monstrous... or... hell is meerly the absence of God which is a horrible existance.!!!
So... its not monstrous if a lovin father sets you on fire for only a short time... or isolates you in a place so horrible that you had rather be dead

In Concluson:::

Smearin lipstick on the notion of hell dont relieve bible-God from bein a monster.!!!

First I have heard of a time-limited fire and brimstone hell. It might be worth it you know. What comes after ? Feet up?

 

[Baldeee]

An instance of opposition or contrast between two concepts or two aspects of something; a dualism.

i am aware of what duality means.
I am asking what you think the duality is between?
Which may then go some way to helping me understand the relevance of your one-word answer.

In answer to your first question...

Thanks.
Hadn't been aware of NDEs and hell.
Learn something new etc.

Your second question is irrelevant.

Not sure how.
Xelasnave asked if anyone has gone to hell and come back, you provide links of people claiming they have, but you don't think your belief or not in the truth of the interpretations in what you are linking to is relevant?

Where do you think this line of questioning will lead, given the OP?

I'm not going to prejudge that, thanks.
But I am curious why you doubt it: is it because you doubt NDEs genuinely being as interpreted, or just that the light they see is the fires of hell because you think it is the light of heaven or some such?

 

[Baldeee]

Do you have a link for that?
Also, do you believe that account?

I would think you'd find a link on Google if you looked, and if what I was taught is commonly enough understood.
Otherwise I guess it'll just be me saying so, based on what I was told when younger.

As to whether I believe it, I certainly think it plausible that the image we have of hell as a fiery pit might have stemmed from the original /Greek word used that linked it to such things.
Clever use of a name to conjure up the images desired by the writer, etc.
It's plausible.
I have no idea if it's correct or not.
It may well have stemmed from other places.
But as said, it's a possibility.
Do you not think so?

 

[Baldeee]

First I have heard of a time-limited fire and brimstone hell. It might be worth it you know. What comes after ? Feet up?

bear in mind that any finite length of time is infinitely shorter than eternity.
I.e. "Time-limited" would be anything from 0 to... well... a very long time indeed.