Entertaining Angels Unawares

Southstar,

I've given you enough dude. I'm sorry I stepped all over you back on the other thread, but I can't say you didn't ask for it.

I'll give you a tip, and take it for what it's worth:

When you step in a mop bucket, it's a good idea to take your foot out of it before you start walking. Many people don't realize this, and they try to cover for themselves.

You see, I care greatly for some of the people in my life that you stepped all over. You did not know this, but then you did not apologize when I gave you fair warning.

If you want to burn me on my other post, go ahead.

Peace mon! :D
 
Err.. Like I said before: I don't know you.

How can I possibly have "stepped all over" people in your life?
 
Southstar,

It started when you and Raithere said absentee fathers was a basic bullshit answer about starving children. It is not a bullshit answer, and you have no idea what my sister has gone through because of an absentee father.

Raithere came back and said something consoling, however you did not. When I see those pictures you presented, I see the picture of a family that doesn't have a man taking care of them -- that is the man's job, and I try to do mine with my family.

Deadbeat fathers in this world are a problem.

Here is another thing that bothered me: I tried to work on your terms when you said what about the tsunami victims that had a father die -- where is God in this?

Fair enough question for you to ask, but you do not give me any credence for my own personal experiences, and what I've had to live with. I think it is a fair enough question for me to compare me and my bipolar father with them and their absentee father. I honestly can't tell you which was worse, but I can tell you this -- those starving kids just want something to eat -- at least they have a mother that holds them. In my case I was a little older, but I didn't even want to live any more -- all I wanted was some love. Food would help restore those kids, but what was gonna fix Woody? The damage was done. You don't know what I've had to live with because of it.

But I have a family, a life, and I have a God that changed everything.
 
It started when you and Raithere said absentee fathers was a basic bullshit answer about starving children.
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You can go back and read my posts. I never once mentioned absentee fathers. Don't accuse me - and don't cuss.
 
Raithere said:
The problem I have with your story, and others like it, is that God (or his angles) is accredited with positive outcomes but not negative ones. So what about those children who did fall to earth, their little bodies broken and bleeding, unsaved by God's supposed grace and a cowboy belt? Shall we say that God found them unfit to live, or did he just not care? Perhaps he was simply busy saving a few dozen people from a tsunami that killed hundreds of thousands.

[Hundreds of thousands of hindus, buddhists, Moslems]
Psalms 16:4 Their sorrows shall be multiplied [that] hasten [after] another [god]: their drink offerings of blood will I not offer, nor take up their names into my lips.


God is apparently entirely capricious in deciding who he will save and who he will allow (or cause?) to die. Such a God is, IMO, unworthy of respect much less reverence.


God punishes sinners, and He will also punish children of sinners. God curses the work of a sinners hands, and children are part of the work of his hands.

Acts 12:22 And the people gave a shout, [saying, It is] the voice of a god, and not of a man.
Acts 12:23 And immediately the angel of the Lord smote him, because he gave not God the glory: and he was eaten of worms, and gave up the ghost.

Here is an account of an angel killing King Herod by giving him worms because he did not give God the glory. God knows the future, so he knew that someday Woody would give Him the glory for saving him. God saved Woody and destroyed Herod.



Some statistics on accidental deaths:
http://www.nsc.org/lrs/statinfo/odds.htm

Accidental death in the New Testament:

Luke 13:4 Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem?
Luke 13:5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
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Woody said:
You aren't even in the race.

The sporting event is life, and we're in training. But you're still sitting in your chair and eating potato chips and ice cream.
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This would be funny were it not so insulting.

You haven't the slightest clue about me or my life, how I treat and try to help others, or the sincerity of my beliefs and actions, both as a Theist in the past or as an Atheistic humanitarian presently. You have no clue as to the 'tests' and 'trials' I have had to go through, yet you presume to judge me. You cannot even follow the doctrine you claim to subscribe to.

My ethics are well considered and I strive daily to live up to those ideals I have found worthy. I have studied and debated the major religions and various offshoots as well; I have researched and studied their histories and the development of their philosophies; I have studied secular philosophy as well as science and various epistemological approaches, and I have attacked each along the way attempting to discern as well as I am able which and what stand up to scrutiny.

I find your proscribed ethics to be insincere and anemic, a panacea for your troubles, a refuge from harsh reality, and a convenient escapism. I don't see you riding the razor's edge of oblivion, willing to commit your very existence to what you believe. Although I have a lot of compassion for what you had to go through as a child I fear you have lost that edge, that poignant moment of glorious humanity when you stood up to your father willing to accept even death. That, IMO, is the reality and glory of the human experience. Having been tempered by that crucible how is it that you can meekly accept a lesser role simply because it is proscribed by authority, any authority?

The issues I have with your God center around the fact that, as you describe him, he does not stand up to my ideals. He falls far short, severely lacking in moral consistency and ethical judgment. I find him to be neither wise, nor good. I find him lacking and if, in some bizarre twist of fate, I do indeed wind up before him after my death he will have to answer to my judgment for I am more than willing to stand before his.

I do not accept rule by force. I will not become a slavering sycophant to authority and power no matter how supreme or absolute. And if I continue to find him lacking after I demand his explanation I will gladly accept hell or oblivion rather than submit my will so such a revolting creature.

Are you willing to do so? Do you commit yourself daily to your actions, willing to accept the consequence of your beliefs and actions no matter what it is? Or do you reassure yourself that everything will be all right, "if you just have faith"? If judgment goes against you will you cower, plead, and beg for forgiveness? Or do you have the temerity to stand before God, no matter what, and say "Judge me as you will, I have done my very best."

I do.

~Raithere
 
ghost7584 said:
Psalms 16:4 Their sorrows shall be multiplied [that] hasten [after] another [god]: their drink offerings of blood will I not offer, nor take up their names into my lips.

God punishes sinners, and He will also punish children of sinners. God curses the work of a sinners hands, and children are part of the work of his hands.

Acts 12:22 And the people gave a shout, [saying, It is] the voice of a god, and not of a man.
Acts 12:23 And immediately the angel of the Lord smote him, because he gave not God the glory: and he was eaten of worms, and gave up the ghost.

Here is an account of an angel killing King Herod by giving him worms because he did not give God the glory. God knows the future, so he knew that someday Woody would give Him the glory for saving him. God saved Woody and destroyed Herod.

Accidental death in the New Testament:

Luke 13:4 Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem?
Luke 13:5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
Click to expand...
In which case God is an egotistical, petty, power hungry, attention seeking, and unjust tyrant. I do not feel any compulsion to worship such a tyrant, I find him despicable. What god, worthy of the title, needs blood anyway... quite bizzare.

~Raithere
 
Southstar,

I read your posts before I made the last posts. Maybe it was a miscommuication on your part when you requoted Raithere, but it sure looks like you're agreeing with him to me. Could you please set the record straight on what it is that you did mean when you said:

Originally Posted by Raithere
Woody,

It seems to be you are ignoring the obvious to ramble on about suffering and death that occurs due to human influence. If you'd like to attribute man caused suffering to human free will so be it, but what about all the accidental deaths and injuries? What about all the natural disasters? How do you know that those starving children in the photos are not starving because their country was devastated in a tsunami that also claimed the life of their father. Your ad hoc accusation that it's the "missing" father's fault is bullshit.

~Raithere ”
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I doubt he will answer you. Way to shut him up anyway.
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You didn't edit Raithere's quote to take out the word "bullshit". I was requoting both of you when I said:

It started when you and Raithere said absentee fathers was a basic bullshit answer about starving children.
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Could you please be constructive here, and tell me what you really meant?
 
If you'd like to attribute man caused suffering to human free will so be it, but what about all the accidental deaths and injuries? What about all the natural disasters?
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I was focusing on this:

"If you'd like to attribute man caused suffering to human free will so be it, but what about all the accidental deaths and injuries? What about all the natural disasters? "
 
SS,

I was focusing on this:

"If you'd like to attribute man caused suffering to human free will so be it, but what about all the accidental deaths and injuries? What about all the natural disasters? "
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Ok that sounds a lot better, thank you.

And might I add to your question: What about death, period? Since all lead to that outcome.

I responded to you that the world is broken.

You basically said, who broke it (implying God did).

I'm not going to write a long treatise on this question, because you'll give me a very short response.

But in the final analysis it is a question of who you believe God is. You don't believe there is a God anyway, so why debate it?
 
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