Empirical Evidence of God

[billvon]

Explain HOW evolution induces intelligence .

A mutation occurs that makes an organism slightly more intelligent than its parents. It thus survives where its siblings do not.

Your assuming that intelligence already exists .

It has existed from day one. A nematode, a tiny worm with about 300 neurons, can learn basic behaviors. Even amoebas with no neurons at all can learn at a very basic level.

All intelligence is just a matter of degree.

 

[river]

A mutation occurs that makes an organism slightly more intelligent than its parents. It thus survives where its siblings do not.

It has existed from day one. A nematode, a tiny worm with about 300 neurons, can learn basic behaviors. Even amoebas with no neurons at all can learn at a very basic level.

All intelligence is just a matter of degree.

But why , is the thing . Why intelligence ?

The parents had to have an intelligence in the first place .

Intelligence is matter of degree , agreed , by form .

But what is the essence of this intelligence ?

 

[Write4U]

You're assuming that intelligence already exists

No, science assumes that intelligence emerges. It is theists who believe an intelligence already existed before the Universe was even created. Is that not the only possible ability for motive in a sentient being?

Intelligence is the ability to relate and react consciously to one's environment.

From one celled organisms to human beings this ability is provided by the micro-tubules present throughout the body, which act as tiny quantum computers.

Metaphysical objects do not possess micro-tubules and therefore cannot process external information.

 

[river]

river said: ↑
You're assuming that intelligence already exists

No, science assumes that intelligence emerges. It is theists who believe an intelligence already existed before the Universe was even created. Is that not the only possible ability for motive in a sentient being?

How so ?

What is the essence of the emergence of intelligence ? From just chemical reactions .

 

[Write4U]

How so ?

Where did God get his intelligence and how does it work.

What is the essence of the emergence of intelligence ? From just chemical reactions .

Yes, why not?

The thing is, you got it backwards. You claim an intelligent being created the Universe. Yet you question the emergence of intelligence in some of the most simple organisms.
Check out Sunflowers, do you think they are intelligent?

It’s not love. It’s heliotropism, and sunflowers are not the only plants that track the sun. But until now, how sunflowers do it has been a mystery.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/05/science/how-sunflowers-follow-the-sun-day-after-day.html

And the "slime mold" ;

 

[river]

Where did God get his intelligence?
Yes, why not?

The thing is, you got it backwards. You claim an intelligent being created the Universe. Yet you question the emergence of intelligence in some of the most simple organisms.
Check out Sunflowers, do you think they are intelligent?

I don't think of god as god , rather a being .

From knowledge gained from without .

Well if intelligence is from just chemical reactions , how ?

If we investigate the sunflower would we find something about this plant that is beyond just , being alive ?

 

[Write4U]

I don't think of god as god , rather a being .

An intelligent (motivated) being?

From knowledge gained from without

How is that different from knowledge gained from without, on earth?

Well if intelligence is from just chemical reactions , how ?

You have already answered your question. Chemical reactions are just that, cause and effect. The greater the sensory arrays of sensors in the organism the greater the reactive response. This is how cuttlefish can actually color and shape shift it's entire body and become one with it's environment.

If we investigate the sunflower would we find something about this plant that is beyond just , being alive ?

No, why? Other than that it knows the position of the sun in the sky and likes the direct exposure for maximum energy

How It Works. Heliotropism, also called phototropism, is most apparent in immature sunflower buds. As the flowers develop, they lose their flexibility of movement. A flexible segment of the stem just below the flower responds to pressure within the motor cells, causing the sunflower to turn toward light.

Pretty smart, no?

We know that a Venus Fly Trap uses a hydraulic tension system to keep its leaves open for insects to enter, lured by an aromatic dew. When the insect triggers two hairs growing on the leaves it causes a hydraulic response, pumping and transferring water into one side of the leaf and thus force the top leaf to bend down and the bottom leaf to bend up.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2637513/

 

[river]

An intelligent (motivated) being?
How is that different from knowledge gained from without, on earth?
You have already answered your question. Chemical reactions are just that, cause and effect. The greater the sensory arrays of sensors in the organism the greater the reactive response. This is how cuttlefish can actually color and shape shift it's entire body and become one with it's environment.
No, why? Pretty smart, it knows the sun's position, no?

We know that a Venus Fly Trap uses a hydraulic sytem to close it's leaves when prey is inside, lured by an aromatic dew.
When the insect triggers two hairs growing on the leaves it causes a hydraulic response, pumping more water into one side of the leaf and thus force the top leaf to bend down and the bottom leaf to bend up.

Explain why the cuttlefish would conceive of changing colour in the first place , like the octopus does .

Hydraulic systems , now why would a plant understand the consequence of balance in their pumping systems ?

 

[Write4U]

Explain why the cuttlefish would conceive of changing colour in the first place , like the octopus does .

Because for some reason the cuttle fish lost its protective cuttle bone, which made it more vulnerable to attack.
It learned to hide and color/shape shift for defensive purposes and later honed these skills for ambush hunting. It has very sophisticated brain which is very large relatively speaking.

Hydraulic systems , now why would a plant understand the consequence of balance in their pumping systems ?

It doesn't have to. As long as the structural mathematics are correct the organism will function correctly. The Fibonacci Sequence is found all through nature as an efficient grouping system, but flowers or spiral galaxies don't need to know that their spiral growth follows a very specific exponential function, related to Pi.

 

[river]

Because for some reason the cuttle fish lost its protective cuttle bone, which made it more vulnerable to attack.
It learned to hide and color/shape shift for defensive purposes and later honed these skills for ambush hunting. It has 9 brains, 8 in each tentacle and 1 main processor brain which is very large relatively speaking.

Hydraulic systems , now why would a plant understand the consequence of balance in their pumping systems ?

It doesn't have to. As long as the mathematics are correct the organism will function correctly. The Fibonacci Sequence is found all through nature as an efficient grouping system, but flowers or spiral galaxies don't need to know that their spirals of growth follow a very specific exponential function, related to Pi.[/QUOTE]

Learn

So mathematics came before living beings , is that your premise ?

 

[Write4U]

Hydraulic systems , now why would a plant understand the consequence of balance in their pumping systems ?

It doesn't have to. As long as the mathematics are correct the organism will function correctly. The Fibonacci Sequence is found all through nature as an efficient grouping system, but flowers or spiral galaxies don't need to know that their spirals of growth follow a very specific exponential function, related to Pi.

Learn
So mathematics came before living beings , is that your premise ?

IMHO, mathematical functions emerged along with physical matter very early in the life of the universe. Mathematics are a fundamental potential of space and may remain latent when not required. But all events follow a mathematically deterministic path woven into the fabric of spacetime itself. Even as individual events may seem random and probabilistic.

Don't forget, a computer is not sentient, yet we already have many quasi intelligent robots which in this short evolutionary period has already produced some astounding non-sentient computational and information sharing skills. No God, just the internet.

This is precisely why mathematics in computation are important. Spacetime itself functions as a self ordering quasi-intelligent quantum computing and quantum transmission platform.

 

[river]

Learn

So mathematics came before living beings , is that your premise ?

IMHO, mathematical functions emerged along with physical matter very early in the life of the universe. Mathematics are a fundamental potential of space and may remain latent when not required. But all events follow a mathematically deterministic path woven into the fabric of spacetime itself. Even as individual events may seem random and probabilistic.

Don't forget, a computer is not sentient, yet we already have many quasi intelligent robots which in this short evolutionary period has already produced some astounding non-sentient computational and information sharing skills. No God, just the internet.
This is precisely why mathematics in computation are important. Spacetime itself functions as a self ordering quasi-intelligent quantum computing and quantum transmission platform.

[/QUOTE]

So mathematics is a function of space .

So you think that the Universe is a computer program

 

[Write4U]

W4U said,
IMHO, mathematical functions emerged along with physical matter very early in the life of the universe. Mathematics are a fundamental potential of space and may remain latent when not required. But all events follow a mathematically deterministic path woven into the fabric of spacetime itself. Even as individual events may seem random and probabilistic.

Don't forget, a computer is not sentient, yet we already have many quasi intelligent robots which in this short evolutionary period has already produced some astounding non-sentient computational and information sharing skills. No God, just the internet.

This is precisely why mathematics in computation are important. Spacetime itself functions as a self ordering quasi-intelligent quantum computing and quantum transmission platform.

So mathematics is a function of space .

Yes. If you ask the Universe a mathematical question and you frame it nicely in mathematical terms, the universe will respond and give you the answer. That's how we "discovered" (predicted) the Higgs boson.

This is confirmed by most theoretical astrophysicists who deal exclusively in values and value processing (mathematics). To a person they swear they get a feeling of discovering something which was there all along and can be made manifest via theoretical and applied mathematics.

So you think that the Universe is a computer program

It is a self organizing program which Tegmark proposes to contain only 32 numbers (values) and a handful of equations, from which all other mathematical values and functions are derivatives.

 

[river]

Write4U

You are wrong .

 

[Write4U]

Write4U

You are wrong .

Where?

 

[river]

Where?

Where is life ?

 

[Write4U]

Where is life ?

Everywhere, potentially, even if not yet explicated in reality.

There are Chemicals and Bio-Chemicals. Only the bio-chemicals are used in living things because of their specific potential abilities for exchanging and processing sensory physical information and compatibility with other bio-chemicals.

 

[river]

Everywhere, potentially, even if not yet explicated in reality.

There are Chemicals and Bio-Chemicals. Only the bio-chemicals are used in living things because of their specific potential abilities for exchanging and processing sensory physical information and compatibility with other bio-chemicals.

Yes no explination of life

Incomplete thinking .

Life uses minerals as well .

 

[river]

The Universe has two fundamental aspects to it , life and physical things , from the micro to the macro .

The physical , Quasars , Galaxies , stars , planets etc are the foundation on which life takes hold .

Life needs a footing so speak in which it take hold and grow .

Here is the thing though , so far we don't know where DNA comes from . It is a conundrum .

 

[Write4U]

Yes no explination of life.

Define Life.

Incomplete thinking .

No, you are making it unneccesarily complicated. Where is it incomplete?

Life uses minerals as well .

And minerals are???
The following is mainstream science. Science does not need mystical aspects.

Biochemistry, sometimes called biological chemistry, is the study of chemical processes within and relating to living organisms.[1] Biochemical processes give rise to the complexity of life.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biochemistry