Embellishments of memory: the unreliable nature of eyewitness testimony

I've met with Aliens, greys I learned later they are called.

I've seen UFO's varying in size and form. I distinguished them from other aircraft, if in doubt, I dismissed the account.

I've dreamed about them too, I distinguis this from my 'real-life' experiences.

I tend to believe in others peoples claims, but indeed, the way you put it: I will never be able to convince you of my experiences.

It's not a question of belief,...because NON-believing is also: 'a belief' weather you want it or not. Others have pointed this out, several times.

Hard phisical evidence of my accounts? I'm willing to undergo a lie detector test, that's the best I can give you.

but futhermore:
There's no established fact of alien spacecraft.
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So, you are saying they are earth craft military vehicles, secret.

There's no established fact of alien spacecraft that "brand" people or burn them.
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yes, there is, remember the Betty and Barney case? This family had nothing to gain with the claims they did,... on the contrary: it gravely disrupted there lives. There have been accounts where people have commited suicide, because of the nature of their experiences. Because they couldn't cope with it and/or where ashamed of it and/or got punned with it and killed themselves out of frustration that they couldn't, in NO WAY, proove to others what they had seen. Who are you to judge them? Piss-off! (sorry, I'm getting embellied here)

There is an established fact of people who will invent stories for a variety of reasons.
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Just like there are people who speak the TRUTH.

There is an established fact of people who believe in things so religiously that they will lie to promote their beliefs or legitimize them.
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Indeed, and I can affirm that the WAY you think legitimizes nothing, not even your own existence, you are locked in my fellow human being,...and it's totally consistent with MY reality, I assure you!

There is an established fact of people seeking status, legitimacy, and affirmation using whatever means will provide this.
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Like I said: I have nothing to gain here, neither have other people, other then being called 'unreliable' by a plain 'nut'

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
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That's simply NOT true!! the claims are NOT extraordinary, YOU just percieve them to be. Even if the claims ARE extraordinary, SIMPLE ordinary proof is enough!!!! PROOF = PROOF there's simply not such a thing as 'ÜBERPROOF'

Anecdotal account (eyewitness testimony) is the least credible and least extraordinary form of data that can be used as evidence.
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Yet, my fellow human beast, this is the way sience works: we test and/or observe some empirically 'evidence' (your oh so wanted but by yourself denouced 'facts') then we try to come up with the most logical explanation for it, conform our knowledgebase of physics, quantum or not, and we pinn down this whole thing, we link it with other things as to place them in 'persective' and we give it a name. you just have to broaden your knowlegde base, because EVIDENCE and FACTS are staring you (and others like you for that matter) in the FACE, you just are not willing to confirm your findings because they don't 'fit' in your little mind! how pathetic is that?

I've yet to see anyone demonstrate otherwise with empirical data.
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go ahead, denounce the world, the universe,...
 
It's not on the internet, and it isn't even literature,....should I 'DERESoLUTE' it and send it directely to your brain?

YOU are the one asking for 'literate' proof,...people here have gone to great lengths providing it to you,...unfortunately,...and naturally, this doesn't 'qualify' for you as 'hard' evidence,.....

HOW COULD IT EVER QUALIFY AS THAT indefinitedeliberateiritatingobliviousteenager,...
 
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So in otherwords, its bullshit.

Like I've been saying over and over... everyone has a story, no one has the evidence.

Humanity is plagued with mythology and tall-tales, many of them fully believed.
 
It must be hard to be so blind, let me 'tell' you that it's very anoying that you 'bumb' into peoples all the time,...shouldn't you use a stick instead?

And if you 'bumb' into them, don't say that 'they' should look out where they are going, after all: it's you the one who's blind. I feel sorry for you, really I do.

Keep the bulshit, mythology and tall-tales for yourself,...because WE believe our EYES and 'empirical' experiences! Something YOU will, unfortunately, never have.

END OF LINE
 
And the delusions continue... and you obviously didn't actually read the thread, you just made assumptions of the content and posted blindly.

meh.
 
I can see you two getting no where putting each others point across. So I ask of you to play nicely and keep insultive comments at a minimum. (Since thats all I can do, everybody gets so upset if I just pull the plug on a thread.)
 
Skinwalker, it would be much more beneficial if you give an example of the evidence you would need in order to be convinced. Give me (or anyone) an example of HARD EVIDENCE. Because you seem driven by a desire to merely debunk ANY evidence and claim it's not hard because there are no alien bodies. Sure we all have our biases, but this one is not getting anywhere. As I've stated before;

Eyewitness testimony can be unreliable. However, when an eyewitness comes along that helps you debunk a "UFO" case you don't seem to find it unreliable anymore.
 
I think hard evidence would probably be something like a piece of ship that can be turned into a statue that people can visit and actually touch, or perhaps a few alien literal pieces (books) or maybe some art, or music. How about some alien cuisine? I mean look how the very native to the planet earth "Potatoe" took on.

That should cover some idea of what people want in the forms of evidence, as aposed to some flare effect snapped on a camera.
 
I keep reading about these alleged alien abductees and nutters that claim to have been in the presence of various species of aliens. Often, the notion that said aliens "implant" them with a device to track them, find them, monitor them, etc. is mentioned as well.

There are even instances in which an alleged "implant" was to be removed and "studied," but in 25 years of hearing these stories, I've yet to see the implants. No scientist or researcher I know of has yet to see the implants.

DNA would be a good bit of evidence. Some alien metal, that shows an isotope or alloy or element not of Earth origin would do. And so on.

Anything but some Jethro claiming to have met "the Greys" or some science fiction writer who perpetuates an hysteria by writing a series of novels about his "visitors."

Something that can be measured and studied. Something that can be qualified as well as quantified. Something empirical.

At present, there is more evidence for each of the world's religions than there are for the alien hypothesis as an explanation for UFOs.

BTW, I don't expect to be posting as much as before in this forum.... so if some posts go unanswered.....
 
Why do believers FEEL THE NEED to use SO MUCH caps when trying to MAKE a point? It makes your posts look like mad rants.

btimsah said:
Eyewitness testimony can be unreliable. However, when an eyewitness comes along that helps you debunk a "UFO" case you don't seem to find it unreliable anymore.
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In these cases the final result is inconclusive. Inconclusive does not imply aliens btw.
Do you have a particular case in mind btimsah?

As I have said before.
"We are talking about possibly the greatest discovery in mankind's history... in a field that is littered with crackpots and hoaxes... and we are expected to rely on testimonial evidence even though it has been shown time and time again to be unreliable?
"
 
Believer is just the way I refer to those who argue for the existence of visiting aliens.

I don't like the term 'woo woo'.
 
woo woo's are more "OMG LOOK AT THIS! THIS IS DEFINATE PROOF THAT ALIENS EXIST AND ABUCT US CAUSE I SAID SO!" They post over and over again in all these kinds of forums until someone agrees with them.
 
Why are you all on this forum? Is it to bust our asses?

To play Hoax? Or to insult the ones who had experiences?

What do you have against those people? They simply want to meet others whom have had comparable experience(s) and they seek answers to them, that's all,....

And then they meet you folks,...hacking and slashing away at them,....trowing names, DEbunking where there's no debunking to do,...asking for 'hard' evidence,...wich when specified (implants) results in some hardware that couldn't even be sent trough a wire,...duh,...

furthermore,...

we seek not to convince others,...
we try to answer as good as we can to questions that are put to us,...there's really not much more that we can do,...
we try to be polite, but when insulted we will naturally be baffled by the plain ingnorance, blatantely displayed to our dismay. So denigrating in fact that we even begin to feel sorry for you asses, just for a moment, that passes quickly.

It's not US who are believers, (we had the experience) It's YOU people who don't believe US, that's all,...but honestly,...

if you where to see an OMMFG UFO, wouldn't you yell to everybody: LOOK LOOK!!!! IT'S INCREDIBLE!!!

indeed,...

and wouldn't you be frustrated if people where to say to you: (who where not at the scene) :

Oh, you're just a delusional MF! a WOO WOO



I would love to see the day,...

Nice and polite greetings
Fuku
 
SkinWalker said:
I keep reading about these alleged alien abductees and nutters that claim to have been in the presence of various species of aliens. Often, the notion that said aliens "implant" them with a device to track them, find them, monitor them, etc. is mentioned as well.

There are even instances in which an alleged "implant" was to be removed and "studied," but in 25 years of hearing these stories, I've yet to see the implants. No scientist or researcher I know of has yet to see the implants.

DNA would be a good bit of evidence. Some alien metal, that shows an isotope or alloy or element not of Earth origin would do. And so on.

Anything but some Jethro claiming to have met "the Greys" or some science fiction writer who perpetuates an hysteria by writing a series of novels about his "visitors."

Something that can be measured and studied. Something that can be qualified as well as quantified. Something empirical.

At present, there is more evidence for each of the world's religions than there are for the alien hypothesis as an explanation for UFOs.

BTW, I don't expect to be posting as much as before in this forum.... so if some posts go unanswered.....
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Can you go down and manually refresh the Database? :p
 
Fukushi said:
Why are you all on this forum?
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There are those of us who visit a science forum such as this and, subsequently, the pseudoscience subforum in order to discuss the dangers, ramifications, effects, and overall silliness that pseudoscience and pseudoscientific thought (a.k.a. magical thinking) can have upon the general populace as well as to expose pseudoscience and magical thinking with those that attempt to pass themselves off as serious or "scientific" when, in fact, they violate all tenets of the scientific process.

Fukushi said:
To play Hoax? Or to insult the ones who had experiences?
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Hoax? You're speaking of the nutters and woo-woos that seem to gravitate here, right? As far as "insult"ing others, there are those for whom it is one's duty to offend.

Fukushi said:
And then they meet you folks,...hacking and slashing away at them,....trowing names, DEbunking where there's no debunking to do,...asking for 'hard' evidence,...wich when specified (implants) results in some hardware that couldn't even be sent trough a wire,...duh,...
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So who cares? If you just want to get a pat on the back and here your fellow believers cheer you on, whilst avoiding the criticisms of skeptics, go to a message board where science isn't the main theme... someplace like AtlantisRising. If you can't take the heat, stay out of this kitchen called Pseudoscience at sciforums.

Fukushi said:
furthermore,...

we seek not to convince others,...
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So be quiet and keep your stories to yourself. Either that, or quit crying when they get criticized. I still advise that you actually read the thread and offer some fair criticisms of the content, appropriately question the theme of the thread, or otherwise participate in the discussion... to date, your posts have been nothing but woo-woo troll matter. Why should I be expected to respond any more seriously than I have when you obviously invaded the thread without a thought of actually participating, leaving no evidence that you've read more than the last page.

Fuck off.
 
first: I usually am not so lazy as not to read the whole thread,...so that proves to me you're full of other 'assumptions' too.

It's your (italic better that CAPS?, yeah? everything as you wish,yeah?)assumption that empirical experience is not admissable as evidence,...

I say that's basis of scientific conduct in the first place, in other words: you denounce scientific conduct,...

and actually, to elaborate a bit on that reading thread thing: a discussion can evolve without it deviating from the original theme, that's what's going on here, and I guess you can't take it that there are people here who don't cry the same things over and over again, as you try to do to make a point.

As far as "insult"ing others, there are those for whom it is one's duty to offend.
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and I take it you have that duty then,... may I ask who are you working for then?
 
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