Eighth grader strip searched
- Thread starter S.A.M.
- Start date
Thoreau
Valued Senior Member
You'd be surprised how many rights we DON'T have already.
There are really two issues in this case. In my view, there should be a third.
The first is whether or not this was a constitutionally justified search. The Court will consider "whether the action was justified at its inception" and "whether the search as actually conducted ‘was reasonably related in scope to the circumstances which justified the interference in the first place." To make these determinations, it will have to decide whether "the measures adopted are reasonably related to the objectives of the search and not excessively intrusive in light of the age and sex of the student and the nature of the infraction." Stafford v. Redding, 531 F.3d 1071, citing New Jersey v. T.L.O., 469 U.S. 325.
It think it would be hard for them to draft an opinion arguing that strip searching a minor with no prior disciplinary problems, solely on the word of another student, in search of ibuprofen, is not "excessively intrusive in light of the age of the student.. and the nature of the infraction"
The second question is whether the school officials are entitled to immunity from lawsuits by the student, because the state of the law was too unclear for them to be on notice that their actions were illegal. The lower court held essentially, that although there was no case expressly forbidding this conduct, its so clearly contrary to common sense and decency that they should have known. I agree with this view, but think there's a fair chance that the Supreme Court will not, largely because there are some bad court decisions out there they can point to as creating ambiguity in this regard.
I also think that there is an issue that is overlooked here, which is the fact that this is not merely a "search" it is the infliction of a trauma on a minor. I'm not aware of there being any legal support for this, but I believe in general that a "search" that causes greater harm than the offense its seeking to uncover should be considered cruel and unusual punishment. I think few would argue that catching a student with advil would justify ordering the student to be stripped as a form of punishment through humiliation.
The first is whether or not this was a constitutionally justified search. The Court will consider "whether the action was justified at its inception" and "whether the search as actually conducted ‘was reasonably related in scope to the circumstances which justified the interference in the first place." To make these determinations, it will have to decide whether "the measures adopted are reasonably related to the objectives of the search and not excessively intrusive in light of the age and sex of the student and the nature of the infraction." Stafford v. Redding, 531 F.3d 1071, citing New Jersey v. T.L.O., 469 U.S. 325.
It think it would be hard for them to draft an opinion arguing that strip searching a minor with no prior disciplinary problems, solely on the word of another student, in search of ibuprofen, is not "excessively intrusive in light of the age of the student.. and the nature of the infraction"
The second question is whether the school officials are entitled to immunity from lawsuits by the student, because the state of the law was too unclear for them to be on notice that their actions were illegal. The lower court held essentially, that although there was no case expressly forbidding this conduct, its so clearly contrary to common sense and decency that they should have known. I agree with this view, but think there's a fair chance that the Supreme Court will not, largely because there are some bad court decisions out there they can point to as creating ambiguity in this regard.
I also think that there is an issue that is overlooked here, which is the fact that this is not merely a "search" it is the infliction of a trauma on a minor. I'm not aware of there being any legal support for this, but I believe in general that a "search" that causes greater harm than the offense its seeking to uncover should be considered cruel and unusual punishment. I think few would argue that catching a student with advil would justify ordering the student to be stripped as a form of punishment through humiliation.
Enmos
Valued Senior Member
Wtf ? They should be charged with sexual assault.
Why was the girl taking prescription strength ibuprofen?
If she didn't need it, she could be risking her future health.
If she didn't need it, she could be risking her future health.
Right, so we should lose even more?
I would rather be strip searched by a girl actually...would the law still apply if the one strip searched asked to be stripped by the opposite gender?
your assuming he ment that for sexual reasons, its actually true that alot of males actually prefer female doctors because they have a reputation for being more empathetics (rightly or wrongly). When i was thinking about joining the reserves one of the things i had to do was get a full physical and one of the tests is physical testicular examination which isnt really the most plesant thing from a psycological perspective. standing there with your gentalia out while someone fondles your testicals is rather disterbing no matter which gender is doing it. I think the only people who could really look at it purly on a clinical level are POSSABLY gay's being examined by women but even that may not be the case.
A prostate exam is another example which comes to mind
For women papsmears and breast exams are also good examples
The school has a duty of care. The way that it was done sounds humiliating and unnecessary, but if the girl was taking drugs that could lead to chronic ill health, they needed to act. Painkillers cause more problems than cannabis does.
What they did was right, but the way they did it was wrong.
teachers are there to facilitate a safe learning environment, if they suspect the child's abusing drugs there are a lot of steps to take other than strip searching the kid. i think strip searches should be left to the police.
there duty of care only goes so far that is to inform DOCS, the police or the parents but they better be right before they release medical info.
because once you get above 13 teenages have a RIGHT to start taking control of there own health care as they show the ability to do so and no school has the right to breach that.
lots of kids carry potentually dangerious drugs. one of the most toxic is actually paracetamol which if used incorectly can destroy the liver. alot of kids cary adrenalin, high dose steroids, variouse psycotropic drugs (SSRI's, lithium and diasapram being some), some kids will carry injecting kits for insulin and even morphine for some. all depending what medical conditions they have and if there doctor has ruled that they can handle there own medical care its NOT up to a SCHOOL to over rule that
because once you get above 13 teenages have a RIGHT to start taking control of there own health care as they show the ability to do so and no school has the right to breach that.
lots of kids carry potentually dangerious drugs. one of the most toxic is actually paracetamol which if used incorectly can destroy the liver. alot of kids cary adrenalin, high dose steroids, variouse psycotropic drugs (SSRI's, lithium and diasapram being some), some kids will carry injecting kits for insulin and even morphine for some. all depending what medical conditions they have and if there doctor has ruled that they can handle there own medical care its NOT up to a SCHOOL to over rule that
Enmos
Valued Senior Member
I agree, it's true. You can talk a woman better than to a man about your problems, it's true for me at least..
Bells
Staff member
Somehow I don't think she was stripsearched for a medical examination. In strip searches, the 'searcher' has to be someone of the same sex.
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Why wasn't her mother called before the search? Why wasn't her mother present for the search?
What they did was wrong. And to have a secretary and school nurse do it? What in the hell?
She was never asked if she had any of the "drugs" on her person before she was searched. You can't have the Police question minors without their legal guardian present, yet schools can someone ask them to strip and show their genitalia to school staff on demand without the child's legal guardian present? That just sounds ridiculous to me.
I agree with her lawyer:
“When you send your child off to school every day, you expect them to be in math class or in the choir,” Mr. Wolf said. “You never imagine their being forced to strip naked and expose their genitalia and breasts to their school officials.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/24/us/24savana.html?pagewanted=2&_r=4
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/24/us/24savana.html?pagewanted=2&_r=4
The transcript of the oral argument of this case is available now on the S.Ct. website.
One thing that has been noted is that Justice Breyer asked the student's lawyer, more or less, why this is any different from having kids change for gym class. One can only hope he was playing devil's advocate.
http://www.edjurist.com/blog/was-it-a-search-what.html
One thing that has been noted is that Justice Breyer asked the student's lawyer, more or less, why this is any different from having kids change for gym class. One can only hope he was playing devil's advocate.
http://www.edjurist.com/blog/was-it-a-search-what.html