Eight-year-old wins divorce

What are you suggesting ? That they are better off starving or marrying some pervert at age 8 ?
 
Enmos said:
What are you suggesting ? That they are better off starving or marrying some pervert at age 8 ?
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Or fighting in some war conflict, or sold into bonded labour or purchased by pedophiles for sexual slavery?

Gee, so many options...

I see from the OP that the mans previous two daughters were kidnapped.
 
S.A.M. said:
Child trafficking disguised as adoption
Posted: March 12, 2007
1:00 am Eastern

By Chuck Norris
© 2008
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Seriously, I don't consider Chuck Norris an authority on the question, but he sure could save the kids....
 
If they were afraid of kidnappers, why didn't they send her there in the first place. I really doubt her sisters were kidnapped. I wonder which old men they were married to.
 
Orleander said:
If they were afraid of kidnappers, why didn't they send her there in the first place. I really doubt her sisters were kidnapped. I wonder which old men they were married to.
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Kidnapping is frequent in Yemen, where children and women trafficking is also common.

U.S. Dept of Labor Bureau of International Labor Affairs

INCIDENCE AND NATURE OF CHILD LABOR - Children are trafficked out of the country to work as street beggars, domestic help, or as camel jockeys in oil rich Gulf States. There are some reports that children are involved in armed conflicts in the country.
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Apparently early marriage is a social problem in Yemen too.
Early marriage, according to the Child Rights Convention, is a marriage that takes place before the bride or groom reach the age of 18. In Yemen, conservative social values and poverty force girls to marry and become young mothers before the age of 18, said Ouis. Furthermore, many parents believe that if they marry off their daughters early, they will be able to protect their daughters’ honour and that of the family.

Because of the conditions that girls and young mothers face, Yemen is ranked at the very bottom of the Mothers’ Index 2007, Ouis told IRIN. Out of 33 least developed countries, Yemen is ranked 31.
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Syzygys said:
Seriously, I don't consider Chuck Norris an authority on the question, but he sure could save the kids....
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What did you just say about Chuck Norris? :eek:

Let's not lose our heads here, people.

Anyway, the whole issue of slavery and whatnot has very little to do with the case. The law there - such as it is - was able to identify a preferable blood relative for her care. It might be better still if people - and women especially - weren't considered chattel there, but that's never going to change.
 
There's a religious precedent for ignoring that, as I recall. Anyway.
 
Orleander said:
Oh.
Well, then maybe the family trusted the man not to consumate the marriage til the daughter was of age.
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I don't think people have the same concepts about sexuality in those regions. They are typically isolated from other societies especially in the most backward places.

Its similar to stuff we see in tribal regions in India. And even with some exposure, its hard to break down convention.

While India has been waging a campaign against the traditional practice of child marriage, many people here consider it a failed, half-hearted effort. The government's defeat has been symbolized by the image of Shakuntala Verma, a 48-year-old social worker who lies in a hospital, both arms crudely severed above the wrists.

Verma believes her limbs were slashed by a local villager, angry at the work she was doing in rural Madhya Pradesh, a state in central India, to prevent about 20 child weddings from going ahead.

"I'd been visiting families in the village, going into their homes and trying to persuade them against marrying their children," she said. Calm and articulate, as she recuperated after a 16-hour operation to rejoin arteries, bones, veins and nerves, she explained: "I wasn't welcomed by the villagers. Parents hid their children and lied about their ages. There was a lot of anger about my presence there. I'm quite certain that the attack was connected to the work I was doing."
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http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/06/01/news/india.php
 
S.A.M. said:
Poor people who sell or otherwise give away their children.

Why is this news?
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It was more than that. A very high % of under 18 girls are given away in marriage in certain countries. The husband in this case raped the girl repeatedly AND IT SEEMS CANNOT BE PROSECUTED FOR THIS. The girl's lawyer is trying to change laws so that young girls cannot be married away to men who can then legally rape them. This is important and is involves very large numbers of girls.
 
S.A.M. said:
Or fighting in some war conflict, or sold into bonded labour or purchased by pedophiles for sexual slavery?

Gee, so many options...

I see from the OP that the mans previous two daughters were kidnapped.
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She was given to a pedophile and it was an arrangement that was legal. Also we do not need to support one as opposed to the other. These are two forms of related pedophilia. That men can own young girls and use them sexually. Neither needs to be sanctioned by law. That his other daughters were kidnapped can help us understand the father. It does not help us understand a system that sees such a marriage as moral.

The implicit idea is that these girls are sexual partners' property. She will be left alone and not kidnapped, it seems, if a man owns the girl and has the right to have sex with her. If she is simply someone's daughter she is not protected. These ideas are obviously widespread enough for it to seem like a decent strategy, marrying off young girls.

The girl won her divorce because under Islamic law she is allowed to if she does not like the marriage, not because she was young. This means that less brave 8 year olds or ones who do not receive adult support may not come forward givne the fact that they are men's property and subject to home revenge for speaking out. Or brainwashed, an even stronger factor, into thinking they have no such right and there is no other option.
 
sowhatifit'sdark said:
It was more than that. A very high % of under 18 girls are given away in marriage in certain countries. The husband in this case raped the girl repeatedly AND IT SEEMS CANNOT BE PROSECUTED FOR THIS. The girl's lawyer is trying to change laws so that young girls cannot be married away to men who can then legally rape them. This is important and is involves very large numbers of girls.
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It may be self evident to you because of social mores in your society. Does not mean that everyone has the same social mores. :)

sowhatifit'sdark said:
She was given to a pedophile and it was an arrangement that was legal.
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Pedophilia is a recent and western social concept; it does not exist in all societies. Its only people from western societies who consider it self evident. Most Asian and African societies do not have such discrete distinctions about sexuality.

Even the people who want to change the laws want to do it because of the effect on womens advancement and health, rather than any notion of perversity.
 
S.A.M. said:
It may be self evident to you because of social mores in your society. Does not mean that everyone has the same social mores. :)
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Nice intellectual distancing. Do you think an eight year should be told by her family to become the sexual partner of 30 year old men?

Pedophilia is a recent and western social concept; it does not exist in all societies. Its only people from western societies who consider it self evident. Most Asian and African societies do not have such discrete distinctions about sexuality.
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And you? What do you think of an 8 year old being the sexual partner of a 30 year old, in this case against her will, but in general?

Even the people who want to change the laws want to do it because of the effect on womens advancement and health, rather than any notion of perversity.
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I don't give a shit about perversity or lack of it. I don't care what turns someone on or does not. An 8 year old should not be the sexual property of an adult male. Such a relationship will have power abuse issues.

An argument like yours could be used against the idea of rape as a crime. There have been cultures and there are certainly subcultures where rape is not seen as 'perverse'.

At 8 you SAM are given to a 30 year old man and he tells you to get on the bed and he sticks his penis in you.
 
sowhatifit'sdark said:
Nice intellectual distancing. Do you think an eight year should be told by her family to become the sexual partner of 30 year old men?

And you? What do you think of an 8 year old being the sexual partner of a 30 year old, in this case against her will, but in general?


I don't give a shit about perversity or lack of it. I don't care what turns someone on or does not. An 8 year old should not be the sexual property of an adult male. Such a relationship will have power abuse issues.

An argument like yours could be used against the idea of rape as a crime. There have been cultures and there are certainly subcultures where rape is not seen as 'perverse'.

At 8 you SAM are given to a 30 year old man and he tells you to get on the bed and he sticks his penis in you.
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You're projecting your own morality onto people who do not share it. :shrug:

Omigawd, he's a pedophile! would make sense if they had a notion that early marriages are wrong. They don't, so there is no sense of wrongdoing. Calling them pedophiles is not going to change their ingrained cultural tradition, in fact, more likely it will make them more resistant to change.

I think the government is taking the right approach in addressing issues of the girls health, high fertility (6.5) rate and womens emancipation.

You have to be objective about this. Morality does not translate well across cultures.
 
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