The consensus is that we can kill cows but not whales because we create and control the ecology of these cows while whales are wild creatures with lives of their own. I do agree that there is merit in this argument. Its not necessarily about pain, although cows do feel less pain when they are brained than whales which are harpooned. It seems to be more about animal rights - animals (and especially intelligent animals) have their own lives with which we shouldn't interfere, much like we shouldn't interfere with the lives of other humans.
Eating Whales
- Thread starter DRZion
- Start date
Yes. If I had said ``Killing whales is wrong because a lot of people think so'', I would agree. I inferred (see post #37) that most people who oppose killing whales on moral grounds also support such legislation---the use of ``you'' in that post was intended to be general, and not targeted towards...ahem...you.
Then what about wild caught salmon and tuna? What about hunting?
Is this really the consensus?
Yeah, they were ill applied but I had some fun wingin' 'em at an internet stranger. Oh well..
You're right- most people probably would support legislation and I might if the whales are driven to extinction- in spite of the fact that is just evolution at work.
See- I disagree with almost all of this. We have the Illusion of control, but not control.
Just because a man takes a cow and breeds it with another cow- doesn't mean he has control.
Reach down and scoop up a handful of dirt. Do you own that dirt? Is it on your land?
How does one Own land? I bet that dirt was, at some time in the past, some guy that thought he owned that land, too.
Do you own a fish that swims through a river that flows through your land? When do you start to own that fish and when do you stop?
The illusion of control never really works and only by force fitting it can you make it appear to work.
Yet, the bird does not own the sky. The sky does not own the bird. The sky does not do the birds bidding.
I would state a belief on my part that no one can own land. No one can own another being. That's an illusion humans like to play with.
Your justification of ownership contradicts itself. You say, "It's about animal rights. People shouldn't interfere-- But it's ok to interfere if you're under the delusion you own the animal."
Well, Japan can claim to own the ocean around it and therefor- the marine life within it if it swims through it's owned seas.
People have started to respect and admire whales and so now its morally wrong to kill them. We decide what is moral - it certainly wasn't immoral to kill whales 200 years ago. I guess as mankind becomes more powerful we get new obligations to the environment since we are keepers of the earth.
I mean the consensus in this thread is that its not okay to hunt whales in the wild, but okay to eat cows because they are essentially man-made. This is what several people said.
Nobody cares about salmon and tune - like you mentioned above, its a lot about what people have to say on the subject. The biggest concern is that we will deplete the fisheries.
Animal husbandry developed probably earlier than sedentary agriculture - it was developed for the purpose of obtaining milk, meat and other animal products as a substitute to tracking and hunting animals. We raise animals to obtain these goods and we do, and we own these goods. Animals are owned as a means of production of a good which we would have regularly had to obtain through violence.
I don't think animal ownership is a delusion - its a simple property law. We're not interfering with livestock, since its our business to slaughter and eat them. It is a different story with whales - they live natural lives and they go about their own business. By killing them we are violating their animal rights more so than we are violating a cow's animal rights by slaughtering it.
respect? hmmm.
I think its because we almost wiped them off the planet that we now have issues with killing them.
Kinda like pandas. Do you really want to kill and eat something so easily endangered?
There are over 6 billion people living on the Earth today, in just another 50 years or less there will be over 14 billion. Once animals, excluding humans, are extinct you can't bring them back, at least not now, so when we eat everything that is in the animal kingdom into oblivion what then will we have to eat but ourselves.
No! I'll bake cookies! lots and lots of cookies
http://news.discovery.com/animals/california-sushi-bar-caught-selling-whale-meat.html
California Sushi Bar Caught Selling Whale Meat
California Sushi Bar Caught Selling Whale Meat
Oh yeah... The violence is all gone now. Silly me.
And I still disagree with you. So now what?
You claim that it's no illusion- that ownership of one being over another is "real."
Yet if you actually examine your arguments- it smacks strongly of justification and rationalizing.
'This is ok this way but not ok that way....' I dunno. It's so arbitrary and motivated by self interest...
Sure- so far humans get away with acting this way- but for how long? At what price?
RE: Japanese
I really don't think Whaling was ever that big in Japan. They mainly ramped up whaling after WWII because it was the only source of protein. THAT'S when Whaling became more common in Japan. Prior to WWII, I'm not sure, but I don't think Whaling was that big of an industry? Perhaps a only few hamlets.
Most Japanese around 40 years of age grew up eating whale at school - it was the cheapest food. You know, school lunch was whale. Most of those same Japanese don't eat whale today. It's not common to eat Whale.
Japanese always say itadakimasu (いただきます) before eating ANYTHING, it translates as "let's eat" but actually means "I humbly receive" and carries a Buddhist respect for this once living thing that has died so that the eater can live.
Westerns on the other hand tend to thank God for the food. I personally prefer to thank the food for its sacrifice.
I really don't think Whaling was ever that big in Japan. They mainly ramped up whaling after WWII because it was the only source of protein. THAT'S when Whaling became more common in Japan. Prior to WWII, I'm not sure, but I don't think Whaling was that big of an industry? Perhaps a only few hamlets.
Most Japanese around 40 years of age grew up eating whale at school - it was the cheapest food. You know, school lunch was whale. Most of those same Japanese don't eat whale today. It's not common to eat Whale.
Japanese always say itadakimasu (いただきます) before eating ANYTHING, it translates as "let's eat" but actually means "I humbly receive" and carries a Buddhist respect for this once living thing that has died so that the eater can live.
Westerns on the other hand tend to thank God for the food. I personally prefer to thank the food for its sacrifice.
You could also go veg and not eat the animal.
Screw that. Some of us is carnivorous.
they also thank plants for dieing so that they can live. I mean, itadakimasu is an understanding - you're going to have to kill something in order so that you can live. It dies. You live. You should acknowledge that and say thanks.
I suppose that's an influence of Buddhism?
I do eat meat. Mostly fish. However, I don't feel the need to eat meat day in and day out. I'm sometimes shocked at how people HAVE to have meat or they don't feel like they've had dinner :shrug:
Is it ok for you to impose your ideas of ``morally wrong'' to people on the other side of the world?
I was referring to post #2 , which is a very good response to the OP. Shooting a bolt through the brain of a cow is a lot less painful for that cow than harpooning is for a whale.
Well, I am trying to get to the root of a dilemma -
why is it okay to eat beef but not whale. I have no problem eating beef, but I am beginning to see why eating whale is wrong. True, this is rationalization (because I do not have any deeper beliefs on the subject) but it is required for the kind of intellectual discourse that I am aiming for.
Well, its not impossible to imagine a human who was genetically modified to become a lithotroph - that way it wouldn't kill anything for food but consume hydrogen gas.
Maybe far off in a vegan universe, this will become a reality.
Whales only live a part of their life in Japanese waters and a part in American waters. Is it okay to eat someone else's bunny when it goes on your property?
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