That's a good point. There could be peer pressure and cultural pressure to participate in a court that ignores women's rights.
Dr Williams wants some aspects of Sharia law with in the UK legal system.
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Challenger78
Valued Senior Member
Oh, this was a choice of whether to operate under sharia law. Right, In that case, I'm all for it. As long as its optional.
I don't see what's stopping the Muslims in England from setting up a sharia court now, with voluntary submission to its rulings by all believers in civil dispute. The only thing missing would be the coercion of the state, and that's not the point -
or so I am to understand.
or so I am to understand.
You are being naive. Imagine you are living in a Muslim community, known to one and all, as is the case, and ask yourself whether a woman would or could insist on English law as opposed to sharia.
The point everyone seems to miss is that, in the case of marital problems for example, pople can seek advice from religious leaders . The advice does not have the force of law. "Advice" would become a ruling and legally binding under sharia.
The sharia court would, for instance, have the power to grant divorce on grounds that might not be recognized under British law. As to its being voluntary, see my remarks above.
See my response above
They would use mediation to come to a decision, and the decision made by the mediation board would be brought to the court systems as an amicable divorce agreement by both parties.
Seems fairly simple to me, and I don't see how it harms anyone.
You misunderstand the situation. Can you imagine a woman living in a tightly knit Muslim community insisting on British Law as opposed to sharia.
Everyone can choose to visit marriage guidance counsellors as often as they wish, in an attempt to reconcile their differences. Some choose to do so, others do not. But if one partner insists on a divorce, the matter will then have to be settled under British law WHICH IS BUILT ON THE FOUNDATION THAT EVERYONE IS EQUAL UNDER THE LAW. The same is not true of sharia.
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To put it in a nutshell. Mediation is available to all in one form or another and there is no problem with that. Having a binding legal system within the law of the land is wrong. Sharia would not be optional as people tend to believe; I would have no objection if it were. But the facts are that Muslims live in tightly knit communities, women are not treated as equals under sharia and no woman could possibly insist on a case being heard under British law given her circumstances.
If I may use an analogy. When the supermarkets were seeking a change in the lawto allow sunday trading, some were against iot on religious grounds.I was against it on humanitarian grounds. The supermarkets boldly proclaimed that no one would be forced to work on sundays; it would be purely optional.
I suggested that in light of peer pressure, and possible career advancement no one would want to stand out from the crowd as being unwilling to work on sunday. And that is what happened. I took the opportunity of chatting with checkout operators in three major supermarkets and got the same response; eight out of twelve sad they would prefer not to work on sundays.
And I look at it with another analogy.
I see nothing at all wrong with polygamy.
In Utah, however, where many practice it, they do so hidden from the eyes of authority, because they have to hide.
This opens it up to many abuses.
When your husband mistreats you, you are afraid to go to the cops, because you are involved in something illegal and are shunned.
You don't go to the cops when you drug dealer rips you off.
One of my favorite expressions is "Sunlight is the best disinfectant".
I see nothing at all wrong with polygamy.
In Utah, however, where many practice it, they do so hidden from the eyes of authority, because they have to hide.
This opens it up to many abuses.
When your husband mistreats you, you are afraid to go to the cops, because you are involved in something illegal and are shunned.
You don't go to the cops when you drug dealer rips you off.
One of my favorite expressions is "Sunlight is the best disinfectant".
I like you motto.
I cant understand why they would want Sharia when so many people leave their homelands to get away from it and everything else- like the laws and the government. But then i can see how people can forget, the reasons are many but i will not get into them.
Edit: Well i read the article in the link. It's just weird.
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Bells
Staff member
The issue here is the fact that some may feel pressured into applying to a Sharia court when they may prefer to seek justice in the traditional British legal system. Or you could also have situations where a Judge in the British system referring a case to a Sharia court without the consent of both parties.
Personally, I think it is a bad idea. Each country should have their own legal system and all residents of that country should abide by that one system.
Personally, I think it is a bad idea. Each country should have their own legal system and all residents of that country should abide by that one system.
Challenger78
Valued Senior Member
If, I'm in a muslim community and intelligent, I would know that my choosing english law would make me ostracized and divide the community. Again, I'm for it if both parties agree.
there are orthodox Jewish courts there, why not muslim ?
You don't see Christians sawing innocent people's heads off. You don't see them blowing themselves up. You don't see them blowing up innocent people. You don't see them stoning women. You don't see them hanging homosexuals. You don't see them abusing their daughters. You don't see them making women dress like circus freaks. You don't see them using women and children as terrorists.... There is NO comparison between Christians and muslims.
Williams says its time to bring Sharia law to Britain. I can't imagine anyone objecting besides Hindus, Christians, Jews, atheists, artists, homosexuals, drinkers, intellectuals, women, etc...
So you would know that you would be otracized. That's my point exactly. There is not a Muslim woman who would seek redress under British law, if her husband opted fopr sharia. Can you not understand that ? Women are not treated as equals under sharia; they are under British law.
I am not a jew; I'm an atheist, so I have no axe to grind. As I have already said Jewish courts are INFORMAL AND CARRY NO LEGAL WEIGHT. If it comes down to a divorce, then it must be done under British law. That would not be so under sharia.
You don't see Christians sawing innocent people's heads off. You don't see them blowing themselves up. You don't see them blowing up innocent people. You don't see them stoning women. You don't see them hanging homosexuals. You don't see them abusing their daughters. You don't see them making women dress like circus freaks. You don't see them using women and children as terrorists.... There is NO comparison between Christians and muslims.
Williams says its time to bring Sharia law to Britain. I can't imagine anyone objecting besides Hindus, Christians, Jews, atheists, artists, homosexuals, drinkers, intellectuals, women, etc...
I don't want to prolong this. Jut let me say that Catholics are threating to close homes for children because the law will no longer allow such agencies to specify that a child can only be adopted by a Catholic family. The only exception is that the wishes of parents will be respected.
We also have other Christian pressure groups attempting to change the law on issues such as abortion and stem cell research. Fortunately the are ignored by the majority.