Dr. Hellfire

(Q)

Encephaloid Martini
Valued Senior Member
Or, why I stopped worrying and learned that we're all going to burn anyways.

The Dr. Strangelove slant I'm taking with this thread mirrors the same satirical theory of MAD (Mutually Assured Destruction) in which each side is deterred from nuclear war by a 'Doomsday Device" that would destroy everyone, regardless of who won.

In this exercise, we only need two components in which to base a similar theory of salvation from hellfire, with Christianity and Islam as our shining examples, considering they both purport an eternal hellfire for those who accept one and reject the other.

Of course, there are a couple of issues that require some clarification, if that's even possible.

Firstly, can we assume that each god has his own lake of fire or do all gods share the same lake of fire? This may not be an important issue, but one that could perhaps come out in the details to swing a decision one way or the other. Using Christianity and Islam as examples may not be the way to go, considering both religions fall under the god of Abraham, hence one lake of hellfire. But, for this exercise, we'll assume both religions do NOT acknowledge these gods as one and the same.

Secondly, can we also assume that we as humans have absolutely no say in how gods will decide our fates? Perhaps an individual who assumes he is righteous enough in the eyes of his god will in fact burn in hellfire for reasons unknown to him. For example, anyone who does not follow the word of their god to the letter, burns, regardless of what he may assume.

Thirdly, we can assume it would appear quite obvious that one cannot accept both or all religions, as a sort of 'loophole' to their fate.

And lastly, we also have to assume that all other religions, as well as those who have no religion or do not accept current versions of religions, are included in the final result, which is of course, that everyone burns, regardless.

So, essentially, the premise is very simple. If you accept Christianity, will you burn in an Islamic hellfire, and vice-versa? If you don't accept either one, you would still fall under the category of rejection, as mentioned in the last assumption above.

Hence, it would appear that all humanity is destined to burn in hellfire and that a "heaven," as purported by these religions, is just a facade created to placate, or some other reason.

Have you all given in to your destiny as I have? :cool:

I would like to thank Adstar for inadvertently bringing this topic into focus.
 
So, essentially, the premise is very simple. If you accept Christianity, will you burn in an Islamic hellfire, and vice-versa? If you don't accept either one, you would still fall under the category of rejection, as mentioned in the last assumption above.

How about the poor bastard from some jungle tribe whose never heard of hell? Never had a chance and as you say they are going to burn anyway. This is good, you've just hit on another reason why religion is stupid.

Better to die as an infant. I think they are spared. So any hope for man is in the hands of the kids who don't know any better.
 
How about the poor bastard from some jungle tribe whose never heard of hell? Never had a chance and as you say they are going to burn anyway. This is good, you've just hit on another reason why religion is stupid.

Better to die as an infant. I think they are spared. So any hope for man is in the hands of the kids who don't know any better.

I suspect no one would be spared, considering that if you DON'T accept either religion, you burn. Even theists themselves call their own children Christians/Muslims, hence they would also fall under this category.
 
Firstly, can we assume that each god has his own lake of fire

Secondly, can we also assume that we as humans have absolutely no say in how gods will decide our fates?

Thirdly, we can assume it would appear quite obvious that one cannot accept both or all religions, as a sort of 'loophole' to their fate.

And lastly, we also have to assume that all other religions, as well as those who have no religion or do not accept current versions of religions, are included in the final result, which is of course, that everyone burns, regardless.

Whats the basis for these assumptions?
 
I suspect no one would be spared, considering that if you DON'T accept either religion, you burn. Even theists themselves call their own children Christians/Muslims, hence they would also fall under this category.

Before an infant is initiated into a religion by baptism etc., that is not strictly true. Both Islam and Christianity accept that they are innocents. Moreover, in traditional Christian practice and belief, babies who die before they are Christened go to limbo, and cannot be buried in a church graveyard. So no matter what their parents call them, they are not Christians.
 
Or, why I stopped worrying and learned that we're all going to burn anyways.

The Dr. Strangelove slant I'm taking with this thread mirrors the same satirical theory of MAD (Mutually Assured Destruction) in which each side is deterred from nuclear war by a 'Doomsday Device" that would destroy everyone, regardless of who won.


In this exercise, we only need two components in which to base a similar theory of salvation from hellfire, with Christianity and Islam as our shining examples, considering they both purport an eternal hellfire for those who accept one and reject the other.

Salvation is about being saved. Christianity is about being forgiven for ones faults and then being deems acceptable to exist with God in eternity.

islam is eternity through works, that is working to achieve a standard of righteousness good enough to qualify for the reward of paradise. there is no salvation in islam, if one is a good muslim then one will earn eternity if one is a bad muslim they will go to the other place.


Of course, there are a couple of issues that require some clarification, if that's even possible.

Firstly, can we assume that each god has his own lake of fire or do all gods share the same lake of fire?

Since muslims claim to follow the same God of Abraham then there cannot be two Gods.


This may not be an important issue, but one that could perhaps come out in the details to swing a decision one way or the other. Using Christianity and Islam as examples may not be the way to go, considering both religions fall under the god of Abraham, hence one lake of hellfire.

Well i guess you can predict my answer to this one. Only one falls under the will of God the other is a lie.


But, for this exercise, we'll assume both religions do NOT acknowledge these gods as one and the same.

ASSUME: makes an ASS of U and ME.


Secondly, can we also assume that we as humans have absolutely no say in how gods will decide our fates? Perhaps an individual who assumes he is righteous enough in the eyes of his god will in fact burn in hellfire for reasons unknown to him.

If a man assumer’s he is righteous enough he deceives himself. No man is.


For example, anyone who does not follow the word of their god to the letter, burns, regardless of what he may assume.

If one seeks to obtain eternity by succeeding in doing every word of God to the letter and rejects eternity via God's forgiveness through the atonement of Jesus, he will burn, because no man is guiltless before the Lord.


Thirdly, we can assume it would appear quite obvious that one cannot accept both or all religions, as a sort of 'loophole' to their fate.

I don't assume it. I know it.


And lastly, we also have to assume that all other religions, as well as those who have no religion or do not accept current versions of religions, are included in the final result, which is of course, that everyone burns, regardless.

Well those who reject Jesus will burn.


So, essentially, the premise is very simple. If you accept Christianity, will you burn in an Islamic hellfire, and vice-versa?

Nope. If you reject Jesus you will burn.


If you don't accept either one, you would still fall under the category of rejection, as mentioned in the last assumption above.

Nope. If you reject Jesus you will burn.


Hence, it would appear that all humanity is destined to burn in hellfire and that a "heaven," as purported by these religions, is just a facade created to placate, or some other reason.

Nope. Heaven is real and it is coming down to earth. God is with us in Spirit and will be with us in the New Jerusalem.


Have you all given in to your destiny as I have? :cool:

How could one 'give in" to a place like that.


I would like to thank Adstar for inadvertently bringing this topic into focus.

I hope i have clarified a few things.



All Praise The Ancient of Days
 
Adstar,

Salvation is about being saved. Christianity is about being forgiven for ones faults and then being deems acceptable to exist with God in eternity.
By following a set of rules, i.e. asking for forgiveness, and attempting to follow a particular lifestyle. Follow the rules and live forever or die.

islam is eternity through works, that is working to achieve a standard of righteousness good enough to qualify for the reward of paradise. there is no salvation in islam, if one is a good muslim then one will earn eternity if one is a bad muslim they will go to the other place.
By following a set of rules, attempting to follow a particular lifestyle. Follow the rules and live forever or die.

Essentially the two religions are indistinguishable in this essential regard. Authoritarian with absolutes as results.

Since muslims claim to follow the same God of Abraham then there cannot be two Gods.
Christianity has a god with 3 personalities whereas Islam has a single god with a single personality. Clearly they cannot be the same god.

“ Thirdly, we can assume it would appear quite obvious that one cannot accept both or all religions, as a sort of 'loophole' to their fate. ”

I don't assume it. I know it.
No, not true. You only believe you know it. You cannot demonstrate that what you believe you know is actually true.

Well those who reject Jesus will burn.
And those who reject Islam will burn. Since no one can commit to both since they are mutually exclusive then the total world is dammed.

Nope. Heaven is real and it is coming down to earth. God is with us in Spirit and will be with us in the New Jerusalem.
Not according to Islam, which cannot be distinguished from Christianity in its base form, i.e. do what our rules say or die.
 
Salvation is about being saved. Christianity is about being forgiven for ones faults and then being deems acceptable to exist with God in eternity.

islam is eternity through works, that is working to achieve a standard of righteousness good enough to qualify for the reward of paradise. there is no salvation in islam, if one is a good muslim then one will earn eternity if one is a bad muslim they will go to the other place.

Reject Christianity and you burn. Reject Islam and you burn. It's really quite simple, Adstar.

Since muslims claim to follow the same God of Abraham then there cannot be two Gods.

Cris answered that one.

Well i guess you can predict my answer to this one. Only one falls under the will of God the other is a lie.

No one is asking you which god you believe. Most likely both are false. But, that is off-topic.

If a man assumer’s he is righteous enough he deceives himself. No man is.

Irrelevant to the discussion.

If one seeks to obtain eternity by succeeding in doing every word of God to the letter and rejects eternity via God's forgiveness through the atonement of Jesus, he will burn, because no man is guiltless before the Lord.

Again, irrelevant. In Islam you burn, too.

I don't assume it. I know it.

So what?

Well those who reject Jesus will burn.

Nope. If you reject Jesus you will burn.

Nope. If you reject Jesus you will burn.

And, according to Islam, if you reject it, you burn. We're not discussing your personal beliefs, Adstar, but beliefs of two religions that are similar in their end results for humans.

Nope. Heaven is real and it is coming down to earth. God is with us in Spirit and will be with us in the New Jerusalem.

If you reject Islam, you burn, according to Islam. This isn't anything YOU personally have to believe, but it is their doctrine.

I hope i have clarified a few things.

You've done nothing of the sort, Adstar, but instead have injected your personal beliefs, which were off topic to the thread.

Do you actually have any on topic contributions? Do you think there is one lake of hellfire all religions use or does each god have their own lake of fire?
 
What a conundrum, damned either way.

Geez, I hate to think that Adstar is going to burn like the rest of us. He's half flame retardant at least.
 
Adstar,

By following a set of rules, i.e. asking for forgiveness, and attempting to follow a particular lifestyle. Follow the rules and live forever or die.


By following a set of rules, attempting to follow a particular lifestyle. Follow the rules and live forever or die.

Essentially the two religions are indistinguishable in this essential regard. Authoritarian with absolutes as results.

The differance has been expalined. There is a basic/ fundamental differance. Even if you refuse to aknowledge it.

Christianity has a god with 3 personalities whereas Islam has a single god with a single personality. Clearly they cannot be the same god.

Just because there are miltiple views on the nature of God does not mean a new God is created because an alterante view is believed. The God of Abraham is God and there is no other.

No, not true. You only believe you know it. You cannot demonstrate that what you believe you know is actually true.

:) I know it and it can be known by others but your right it cannot be proven in a scientific kind of way.

And those who reject Islam will burn. Since no one can commit to both since they are mutually exclusive then the total world is dammed.

Not according to Islam, which cannot be distinguished from Christianity in its base form, i.e. do what our rules say or die.

I don't believe muhammad's message.

Your thinking is weird to say the lest. so much for scientific logic :D



All Praise The Ancient Of Days
 
Adstar,

The differance has been expalined. There is a basic/ fundamental differance. Even if you refuse to aknowledge it.
You only take that perspective because you have been indoctrinated by one side and are blinded by that and are unable to see any alternatives. Looking objectively from the outside both religions are identical in their fundamental perspective; a god exists and will reward us in an afterlife or condemn us if we behave according to some arbitrary rules (choose specific selections from the rule list and you can be labeled Christian or Muslim).

Just because there are miltiple views on the nature of God does not mean a new God is created because an alterante view is believed. The God of Abraham is God and there is no other.
The allocation of contradictory characteristics determines they must be different. Unless you also want to assert that black = white.

I know it and it can be known by others but your right it cannot be proven in a scientific kind of way.
No, again you cannot meaningfully assert that you know anything where you cannot independently distinguish between personal delusion and fantasy versus actuality.

Your thinking is weird to say the lest. so much for scientific logic
Religions do not operate using logic since they are faith based. If as you assert a faith based belief reflects truth then both Christian beliefs and Islamic beliefs must reflect truth. Since both assert that the other is wrong then all from both sides must be damned according to faith based illogic.

It is not that I am using a scientific methodology but more of an illustration of the absurdity of religious thought.
 
The God of Abraham is God and there is no other.

Muhammad's message came 600 years AFTER Jesus. You must yield to the new message from the god of Abraham.

I don't believe muhammad's message.

Then. you reject Muhammad and you reject Islam and you reject the god of Abraham. Sorry bro, it's the everlasting fiery lake for you.
 
Not according to Islam - the Quran is very clear that righteous Christians have nothing to fear. See 5:69
 
Couldn't Adstar just make anything associated with Islam as Satanic? Satan seems to be an answer when all else fails.
 
The God of Abraham is God and there is no other.

*************
M*W: Abraham was a polytheist who, like his father, was a pagan idol worshipper. Specifically, which one of the gods that Abraham believed in is the one true god?
 
Back
Top