"dogma's a bitch"

[Balerion]

dogma is a system unquestioned because it isn't based on proof that can be questioned..
since all proof can be questioned and is unreliable (OP)..any system based on it is wrong..

Complete nonsense. Just because a system does not claim absolutism does not make it unreliable. In fact, dogma is a weakness--it is unbendable and therefore unable to change.

dogma rocks..

and is neccesary..

Care to demonstrate how either is true? You can't just make wild claims without providing some sort of evidence.

the west is collapsing..it "rose" for some time because all the people who were gathered at a side of the boat have rushed to the other side..generating momentary balance..when they reach it all they will start sinking and then will run to the other side and so on..
the soviet union took its shot and was the "star" system of the world before it crumbled..dictatorship and other systems have taken their chance..the democracy star is nearing it's end..

Total garbage. I always wonder why people who haven't the first clue as to what they're taking about are always the loudest...I mean, did you just cite the Soviet Union as why the West will fail? WOW.

AND EVEN IF it stays alive like this it is as far as can be from being perfect or good or ideal or not bad..it would skim around "the worst" if that wasn't overflowing already..

Again, evidence?

 

[Bishadi]

that's funny..i once came across a book that was preaching to islam...it said how only Islam states clearly the goal behind life.. the "question of the millennium"..i thought the guy didn't know what he was talking about or was just trying to sell islam off...

so then you know that 'goal' from one sect, perhaps

now you're telling me to give you one religion which defines life and gives it a reason??

no,

i asked if you knew one that is real or that is correct (to you). I am not concerned with who said what, so much as, are any of them 'correct'?

don't all religions have their own explanations to life??

sure, they all do; why do you think people follow them?

(and i'm really sorry bishadi..you always asked for anyone to prove you wrong in anything..i really honestly wished no one will be able to..i always regarded you as a ,misunderstood genius..similar to me with out the genius part..but you are wrong this time)

thanks for the direct opinion as well the fairness

BUTTTTT (i got one, too)................ do you agree, that the reason people even follow beliefs, dogma, religions, rituals, kissing; dirt, statues, and other peoples behinds; is for their personal quest for 'life'?


i ask, "what is life?"

to me, by answering that ONE question that is equal to reality and existence; then we all can become aware, via THE KNOWLEDGE.

(upon the head;.................. the mark we all want)


can you agree, as friends? (us esoterics)

 

[Bishadi]

Complete nonsense. Just because a system does not claim absolutism does not make it unreliable. In fact, dogma is a weakness--it is unbendable and therefore unable to change.

i disagree, as often the dogma is from misinterpreted 'metaphors'

they change just as any mind can

Total garbage. I always wonder why people who haven't the first clue as to what they're taking about are always the loudest...I mean, did you just cite the Soviet Union as why the West will fail? WOW.

the west is going to get their butts kicked as soon as one firecracker pops over the middle-east crisis

perhaps check yourself and find; we (the west) are that very beast of many heads bound by the 'invisible hand'

china, russian and india are already in bed; if one 'who ever' pops a cap; them three will level us before 'we the people' ruin their side of the lake.

what we did/are doing in palestine, is and will be remembered as the most horrid maintainance of idiocracy coupled with the underwriting of a religious pursuit.

if you all like dogma, find that israel is 'the gate'

and that is what the three ladies (religions of abraham) have been warning us about in their 'prophecies'............(babylon is babilu; the gate)

the word megiddo means "the mount" (the hill)....... that dogma crap on armegeddon is based on what we funded

and all the fire 'from' the sky is from nuclear weapons; that mankind built

there aint no magic that is coming to save the day as well there aint not judgment that is coming from some magic man

'we the people' are mankind in total and all of it we do to ourselves

them old guys in caves (writing prophecies) just saw it and wrote what they could, how they could understand it.

kind of like having deja vu and being able to account before the time.

nothing magical about it.

 

[Balerion]

i disagree, as often the dogma is from misinterpreted 'metaphors'

they change just as any mind can

Then it isn't dogma, and therefore not a part of the conversation. Dogma is unchanging and infallable, or it isn't dogma.

the west is going to get their butts kicked as soon as one firecracker pops over the middle-east crisis

perhaps check yourself and find; we (the west) are that very beast of many heads bound by the 'invisible hand'

china, russian and india are already in bed; if one 'who ever' pops a cap; them three will level us before 'we the people' ruin their side of the lake.

what we did/are doing in palestine, is and will be remembered as the most horrid maintainance of idiocracy coupled with the underwriting of a religious pursuit.

if you all like dogma, find that israel is 'the gate'

and that is what the three ladies (religions of abraham) have been warning us about in their 'prophecies'............(babylon is babilu; the gate)

the word megiddo means "the mount" (the hill)....... that dogma crap on armegeddon is based on what we funded

and all the fire 'from' the sky is from nuclear weapons; that mankind built

there aint no magic that is coming to save the day as well there aint not judgment that is coming from some magic man

'we the people' are mankind in total and all of it we do to ourselves

them old guys in caves (writing prophecies) just saw it and wrote what they could, how they could understand it.

kind of like having deja vu and being able to account before the time.

nothing magical about it.

Absolute nonsense. I find it funny how Westerners are often the ones to decry their own doom when they don't understand the first thing about it.

First of all, the situation in the middle east has been bad forever. Ask Britan. But it in no way threatens our standing in the world. The West is not in decline. If anything, the demonstrations in Iran show that unchallenged theocratic rule is on its way out.

 

[scifes]

Complete nonsense. Just because a system does not claim absolutism does not make it unreliable. In fact, dogma is a weakness--it is unbendable and therefore unable to change.

:wtf:
exactly!!
if a system doesn't claim absolutism then it IS unreliable..whether or not you have a choice isn't the issue..unreliable choices are many in our life but they are still taken..because usually you don't have much choice..everything human based is far from absolutism..dogma is NOT..hence the choice between them is obvious..

and again..:wtf:..how is being perfect and unbendable to error is a weakness?? you remind me of micheal and how we're better than god because we can learn..because we can "change"..as you said..what the hell is wrong with you people?? can't you imagine something perfect beyond the need to modify or evolve?
of course you can't..nothing our eyes met is like that..
well that is god..
and dogma is god's system..perfect..""dogma is a weakness""

Care to demonstrate how either is true? You can't just make wild claims without providing some sort of evidence.

i'm sorry..that isn't the first time that button is pressed..
so:
Care to demonstrate how either is wrong? You can't just make wild claims without providing some sort of evidence.

that's what i'm working on in the whole thread and he says "give me evidence"..what kind of evidence exactly??
go study history..and so as not to claim what's beyond me..look at islamic dogma..once when the world was an utopia..

Total garbage. I always wonder why people who haven't the first clue as to what they're taking about are always the loudest...I mean, did you just cite the Soviet Union as why the West will fail? WOW.

yeah i wonder too..but hey, it's how things run here..learn to deal with it..(unless you're on the bigger side:grumble..
yes i cited the Soviet Union's failure as a similar case to the west..both are the tries of humans..humans are imperfect..the system crashes..a new try is taken by humans again..and so on and so forth..what bit exactly did you have a hard time understanding??

Again, evidence?

sure, ladies first.

 

[Bishadi]

Then it isn't dogma, and therefore not a part of the conversation. Dogma is unchanging and infallable, or it isn't dogma.

i guess your opinion must be infallible.

Absolute nonsense. I find it funny how Westerners are often the ones to decry their own doom when they don't understand the first thing about it.

'none sense' is the scape-goat answer of the ignorant

do you know what 'invisible hand' means?

do you know the etymology of much of the dogma, within the theological renditions, on their individual basis, or are you just blanketing dogma and religious material all together and just throwing it all away?

i can understand why many throw a broken glass away

First of all, the situation in the middle east has been bad forever. Ask Britan. But it in no way threatens our standing in the world. The West is not in decline. If anything, the demonstrations in Iran show that unchallenged theocratic rule is on its way out.

fool the reason all this rukus is occuring in iran is israel is going to attack the nuclear facilities and this is creating a stir within the media

the majority of the media is idealized with bias towards 'theocratic rule' stating that islamic groups are bad

then why the HELL are we furnishing weapons and money to a government (Israel) that is creating a 'religious state'?

over 20% of their population is muslim, within the walls of israel and do they have a voice? NO

what you problem is, you do not read enough to realize what was written way back when is falling on our laps.

if israel touches iran, we all in for a world of BS

if the US, touches No Korea, sure we could make So K an island but be certain; we do not want to awaken the bear.

we screwed up in iraq and we screwed up in most every endeavor of incorporating into the middle east

the 'invisible hand' is the very monster you apparently know but do not see

 

[Balerion]

:wtf:
exactly!!
if a system doesn't claim absolutism then it IS unreliable..whether or not you have a choice isn't the issue..unreliable choices are many in our life but they are still taken..because usually you don't have much choice..everything human based is far from absolutism..dogma is NOT..hence the choice between them is obvious..

Your theatrics aside, are you sure you know what you're talking about? Claiming absolutism does not make a system or a belief correct. You'rea aware of this, no?

and again..:wtf:..how is being perfect and unbendable to error is a weakness?? you remind me of micheal and how we're better than god because we can learn..because we can "change"..as you said..what the hell is wrong with you people?? can't you imagine something perfect beyond the need to modify or evolve?
of course you can't..nothing our eyes met is like that..
well that is god..
and dogma is god's system..perfect..""dogma is a weakness""

Wait, wait, wait...who said dogma was perfect? Since when is that the case? Ohhh...I think I see it now. I'm guessing you're a man of faith?

Ah. I see.

i'm sorry..that isn't the first time that button is pressed..
so:
Care to demonstrate how either is wrong? You can't just make wild claims without providing some sort of evidence.

that's what i'm working on in the whole thread and he says "give me evidence"..what kind of evidence exactly??
go study history..and so as not to claim what's beyond me..look at islamic dogma..once when the world was an utopia..

The world was a utopia?? When??

yeah i wonder too..but hey, it's how things run here..learn to deal with it..(unless you're on the bigger side:grumble..
yes i cited the Soviet Union's failure as a similar case to the west..both are the tries of humans..humans are imperfect..the system crashes..a new try is taken by humans again..and so on and so forth..what bit exactly did you have a hard time understanding??


sure, ladies first.[/QUOTE]

Seriously, I didn't realize I was getting into a conversation with a grade-school theist. Wasn't aware. You won't be able to comprehend anything I tell you, and what you CAN comprehend you'll simply deny because it won't jive with your skydaddy. So I'll pass, thanks.

 

[Bishadi]

The world was a utopia?? When??

before mass became consciously aware of itself (mankind (consciousness))

the instinctive do right by life, naturally; mankind creates and often believes in the tangents of what 'words' can program.

that utopia can be returned once mankind comprehends that are 'a part of the garden'


"happiness is knowing: once we are, we are ONE"

(bishadian dogma)

 

[Balerion]

i guess your opinion must be infallible.

No, you don't understand. Dogma does not present itself as opinion. It presents itself as truth, as divine and infallable truth. It presents itself as being above inquiry. My opinion is based on evidences, while dogma is not. Dogma is the Holy Truth, according to some ancient desert dweller.

'none sense' is the scape-goat answer of the ignorant

No, it's the dismissal of a bunk opinion based on nothing and supported by nothing. You've done nothing to present your case other than ringing the same old bell that so many other doomsdayers have. It's never come true, and it's not going to come true.

do you know the etymology of much of the dogma, within the theological renditions, on their individual basis, or are you just blanketing dogma and religious material all together and just throwing it all away?

i can understand why many throw a broken glass away

Dogma comes from the greek word for holding an opinion, but dogma itself does not mean opinion, it means infallable truth.

fool the reason all this rukus is occuring in iran is israel is going to attack the nuclear facilities and this is creating a stir within the media

First of all, mind the name-calling. Considering your grammar and your lack of capitalization, you do not want to go down that road with me. Second, Israel isn't going to attack anything, since Iran isn't a threat to them in any measurable way.

the majority of the media is idealized with bias towards 'theocratic rule' stating that islamic groups are bad

That's because the majority of them are bad!

then why the HELL are we furnishing weapons and money to a government (Israel) that is creating a 'religious state'?

I think it started because of guilt from not stepping in sooner during WWII, and it continues because it helps having a powerful ally in the Middle East. And please don't confuse American foreign policy with MY PERSONAL OPINION ON THE SUBJECT.

over 20% of their population is muslim, within the walls of israel and do they have a voice? NO

You're preaching to the choir.

what you problem is, you do not read enough to realize what was written way back when is falling on our laps.

Uh...what?

if israel touches iran, we all in for a world of BS

if the US, touches No Korea, sure we could make So K an island but be certain; we do not want to awaken the bear.

See, this is where YOU are mistaken. If Israel touches Iran, Iran buckles in a week, and the next six or seven years are spent fighting insurgent groups within the country while allowing the newly-installed government to get settled in and allow the people to get used to democracy. Stop making the mistake of believing Iran is capable of anything. They're not.

Same with North Korea.

we screwed up in iraq and we screwed up in most every endeavor of incorporating into the middle east

And yet...here we are. Alive and well. The world still turns.

 

[Bishadi]

No, you don't understand. Dogma does not present itself as opinion. It presents itself as truth, as divine and infallable truth.

knowledge representing 'themselves' is why torah cannot vindicate itself; that dog (ma) dont hunt (it's chasing its own tail)

It presents itself as being above inquiry. My opinion is based on evidences, while dogma is not. Dogma is the Holy Truth, according to some ancient desert dweller.

i don't to the female dog (a bitch)

but i can read and learn the lessons of huck finn just like any other literature

No, it's the dismissal of a bunk opinion based on nothing and supported by nothing. You've done nothing to present your case other than ringing the same old bell that so many other doomsdayers have. It's never come true, and it's not going to come true.

i am not a doomsday kind of guy, i am looking at what is occuring on the earth, right now!

the difference between us, is i am open to possibilities; that maybe a combination of old literature (from every religious point of view) coupled with science and reality (both feet flat on the ground) can have something to see within, that can assist 'all mankind' (screw me)

Dogma comes from the greek word for holding an opinion, but dogma itself does not mean opinion, it means infallable truth.

then realize when reality is comprehended, that dog will be an old extinct species

First of all, mind the name-calling. Considering your grammar and your lack of capitalization, you do not want to go down that road with me. Second, Israel isn't going to attack anything, since Iran isn't a threat to them in any measurable way.

like i thought, you live in a box.......

i am not going into a political debate.

either you are 'well read' or your are not!

not going to go there, let's sick with dogma being funny (most of the time)

That's because the majority of them are bad!

and which secular gang owns most of the media corps

I think it started because of guilt from not stepping in sooner during WWII,

guilt?

what the blank are you talking about.................... 'we the people' were bamboozled into believing it was going to be a democratic state, when in reality; the whole intent of israel is to take the mount and build the temple so messiah will come.

you on a dogma thread and have no clue about the religions of abraham and the dogma surrounding the beliefs?

funnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnny

and it continues because it helps having a powerful ally in the Middle East.

nice powerful group; they retain a 1.2 million soul concentration camp

the single most densly populated land on earth all behind fences

See, this is where YOU are mistaken. If Israel touches Iran, Iran buckles in a week, and the next six or seven years are spent fighting insurgent groups within the country while allowing the newly-installed government to get settled in and allow the people to get used to democracy. Stop making the mistake of believing Iran is capable of anything. They're not.

Same with North Korea.

one firecracker can level a city


do you actually think, them things will not be used?

and if ONE city is hit, like a 911; will america retaliate?

will the rest of the world just sit and watch?

as soon as i realized, people are willing to die to fight oppression, in a period of firecrackers; i knew then it was just a matter of time.

911 was a phone call to america to wake up to what is occuring in the middle east, and like most; many have no idea what it was all about as they are told it is just 'terrorists' by crazies, when in reality, they are screaming for help!

and who is listening?


(p.s... i sympathize to no radicles unless them radicle are fighting the oppressors and we the people are funding the oppression in the middle east, that is ALL based on a the religious dogma of a single religion, that is over powering the other 2)

forget me and what i say, use the material and see for yourself (be fair)

 

[Balerion]

Bishadi, you again demonstrated that you haven't the first clue what you're talking about.

I feel like I owe an apology to my fellow boardmate Sin. It's true, there are stupid people on both sides of theology!

As for you, Bishadi, if you can't even see that we initially aided Israel out of guilt for not helping prevent the holocaust, I don't know what else to tell you. You're a lost cause.

 

[Bishadi]

Bishadi, you again demonstrated that you haven't the first clue what you're talking about.

I feel like I owe an apology to my fellow boardmate Sin. It's true, there are stupid people on both sides of theology!

As for you, Bishadi, if you can't even see that we initially aided Israel out of guilt for not helping prevent the holocaust, I don't know what else to tell you. You're a lost cause.

go lay by your dish

wwII was not about a holocaust; that is the religious quacks creting more dogma, and you believe it.

hitle was pissed at the business owners (who happen to be well instilled in the business community of germany and jewish) for not supporting the governing body in breaking the versailes treaty (to rearm germany, aften the crushing moral loss since wwI)

that war was not about some hate for a certain group, it was about another christian dictator that wanted unity within the people versus the divide caused by politics

that clensing was not to just shut down a religion, it was the assets and control of power that the fool wanted

perhaps get past the dogma of what is sold of the term holocaust before opening your chops

for the folks who are just getting into the thread, this tangent is not what was intented

but be certain, at least you all can see how dogma, beliefs and how the media sells crap, that the ignorant can stay ignorant; they just believe what they are told while, too lazy to actually do the homework.

that subject on the middle east is something i know better than you could even imagine; just shut up before i get nasty

 

[scifes]

loooool
:roflmao:
i'm not sure if i should reply to you or not Jdawg..bishadi is making such a nice work out of you.. all your points are being debunked in more ways than one, and you give for each reply another point that can be debunked also in more ways than none..this might as well turn into a "how many things does Jdawg doesn't know?" thread..

but no thanks..dogma is right..that's the point..
you said:

No, you don't understand. Dogma does not present itself as opinion. It presents itself as truth, as divine and infallable truth. It presents itself as being above inquiry. My opinion is based on evidences, while dogma is not. Dogma is the Holy Truth, according to some ancient desert dweller.

and i say:
show me, m'lady..

bishadi, i'll be back for you in a min..

 

[Balerion]

that war was not about some hate for a certain group, it was about another christian dictator that wanted unity within the people versus the divide caused by politics

That right there speaks for itself. It wasn't about hating the Jews now? So I'm guessing the 6 million dead Jews was, what, misdirection?

that subject on the middle east is something i know better than you could even imagine; just shut up before i get nasty

Oh, trust me, I'm shaking in my boots. Seriously, by the looks of it, you don't know anything better than I can imagine. And now I find out you're a holocaust denier? WOW.

 

[Bishadi]

That right there speaks for itself. It wasn't about hating the Jews now? So I'm guessing the 6 million dead Jews was, what, misdirection?

and how many christians were killed (does that even matter to you?)

what about russia?

what about hiroshima/nagasaki?

what about the genocide of serbs?

you are following a bias without measuring both sides (all sides)?

if our country leaders tried to sell a war, do you think it could be based and to invoke a muslim holocaust?

meaning; if since 911, could the people be put to war based on hating muslims? (to just wipe them out? Hell no!!!!)

well, when politician sell war and point to the causes during speaches; they say stupid junk but the core reasons of war are to unite the people towards a cause and 'freedom' is the UNIVERSAL cry in most cases, unless religious.

SO either hitler was screaming 'freedom' or he was screaming religion (not the hate aspect but that the people are equally united in 'good')

You have created a belief that wwII was all about holohoax

just as distaste to religious dogma, you are living in one based on the same stupidity of religious beliefs; they are told a single side of the equation (no causality)

Oh, trust me, I'm shaking in my boots. Seriously, by the looks of it, you don't know anything better than I can imagine. And now I find out you're a holocaust denier? WOW.

i deny the material taught that the war was based on hating any single group of people. There is no way the combining of world powers (the populations of the people within) was to stamp out judaism (for wwII); that is just the most stupid ideology any could ever try and maintain.

sure some spoke and said stupid junk, but that war was not about jews or judaism. You perhaps, think so and why you feel "guilty" as that is what the hypocrits do, the impose and maintain guilt as a tool.

eg... do you realize to even say wwII was not about holohoax in certain countries they put you in jail? No one is not saying what occurred was not horrid, as all war is, but damnit people, the children of them people are not responsible for reparations to a secular or even the children of the victims.

we should not hold guilt to a body of a religion; as that is the "holocaust" to mankind!

that is the error of ignorance.............

i don't do conspiracy thinking but if your think israel is based on the good of mankind, then i have very little to discuss with you!

that institution for a religious belief, is the single greatest detriment on this earth............. as it is causing a divide based on beliefs, that is affecting every nation on earth!


and when an idiot says, well "the people of iran are fighting theocracy", i rather think it is prudent to point out, that the whole mess in the middle east is based on the fact that the dogma of judaism suggests the land of israel is theirs by god (they the chosen ones)

and that is the reason, the mess that has lasted for over 70 yrs, of direct conflict

but the scary part is, the extremists of both sides live now in an era of nuclear weapons; in which each side suggest 'god' is telling them they have the right, it is there land; and they will die defending it

and us stupid fools on this side are paying for it, because it make sense to have an 'american presense in the oil rich middle east'

to the congress, the 'invisible hand' is making sense of it, while the dogma is religiously underwriting all of it

basically you are seeing religious dogma unfolding itself (the historical records laying the ground work of the intent of the people) and i do not believe you have enough depth and integrity to actually look it all up yourself to 'see for yourself'.

i never said, i am all knowing; but these items i am pointing out are so true; you should be able to feel them in your bones.

 

[Bishadi]

i am sorry but i found a point quite ironic

you se for yourself

i rather think it is prudent to point out, that the whole mess in the middle east is based on the fact that the dogma of judaism suggests the land of israel is theirs by god (they the chosen ones)

and that is the reason, the mess that has lasted for over 70 yrs, of direct conflict

but the scary part is, the extremists of both sides live now in an era of nuclear weapons; in which each side suggest 'god' is telling them they have the right, it is there land; and they will die defending it

and us stupid fools on this side are paying for it, because it make sense to have an 'american presense in the oil rich middle east'

to the congress, the 'invisible hand' is making sense of it, while the dogma is religiously underwriting all of it

basically you are seeing religious dogma unfolding itself (the historical records laying the ground work of the intent of the people)

could all that relate and fit nicely in the comment:



"dogma's a bitch"

 

[jpappl]

Bishadi,

that institution for a religious belief, is the single greatest detriment on this earth............. as it is causing a divide based on beliefs, that is affecting every nation on earth!

I think this is overstated.

It is not one religion but all religious and political dogma that is the greatest detriment.

Maybe that is what you mean't.

Scifes claims it is necessary, it is not. It is a constant unfortunately because of people who can't or will not think for themselves.

Religions and governments have been fooling their populations at large for thousands of years.

Saying dogma is good is like saying war is good.

 

[Bishadi]

Bishadi,



I think this is overstated.

sure would be nice to accept that within, as being just that simple

It is not one religion but all religious and political dogma that is the greatest detriment.

globally, i agree as each have their ignorance (india has the greatest health issues on the planet based on the dogma of no eating meat)

Maybe that is what you mean't.

i see your compassion is ringing

Scifes claims it is necessary, it is not. It is a constant unfortunately because of people who can't or will not think for themselves.

and thn the beliefs incorporate a need of the clergy along with the ideology that none of us are capable of 'UNDERSTANDING" by ourselves (equally as individuals)

which in many ways contradicts the beliefs themselves in which most all suggest, one day the truth will unfold; to us all

Religions and governments have been fooling their populations at large for thousands of years.

Saying dogma is good is like saying war is good.

makes sense

 

[scifes]

sure, they all do; why do you think people follow them?

i know..that's why people have beliefs and religions..
but the book emphasized on a "direct" answer..even atheists who have no religion live their lives for reasons..but to narrow it down..:
B]"is there a religion that can answer the question: (why was i brought into life?) in a specific, simple, short answer?"[ [/B]

it mentioned how even Christians believe that in their life christ scrificed himself to atone for mankind's sin..and that they should be as close to him as possible and love him and believe in him..but that is swirling around the question of existence without giving a straight answer..
also no bible has a verse that answers that question head on..islam has..so if there are any Christians on board perhaps they can clarify please?


this may seem off topic..but it's actually the core of dogma..answering questions humans can't..lol, AND not providing philosophical evidence..because if there was such evidence or logical trail to it..humans would reach it without the need for dogma..also, in the same way they followed the certain logical trail and answered the question..the same way they can follow other trails and branch off-->creating differences--->conflict..
of course no need to say that with multiple dogmas you reach conflict too..but if at the top was a ONE man made system, it would collapse on it's own one day..but if there was only ONE dogma at the top..it can last for ever..as long as it IS perfect..and being perfect is the only way to spot real perfect dogmas from man made systems disguised as dogma..

1-real perfect dogma... last forever.

2-man made systems..temporarily perfect (to suit certain circumstances, upon inevitable change, they will : ) collapse.

3-fake dogma(man made systems) but named dogma..will end up like 2.

BUTTTTT (i got one, too)................ do you agree, that the reason people even follow beliefs, dogma, religions, rituals, kissing; dirt, statues, and other peoples behinds; is for their personal quest for 'life'?

EXCELLENT!!
the list you provided is true..people follow their personal understanding of life..
excluding religion and dogma..
in those a person adopts and runs his life through a system even if it's agains his personal understanding..it's faith really..so it actually eliminates conflict on a personal scale..but as i said..generates others on the scale of different religions..

but in the hope of one dogma or religion is ultimately right..a utopian life style isn't impossible anymore..
without dogma..people will run differently..
with wrong dogma..people will fall together (united )..
if perfect dogma rises above the other ons(if it succeeds in that)..we have utopia..

can you agree, as friends? (us esoterics)

lol..i'm trying my best to get into your little group bishadi..


just in case some people imagine the way dogma rules as a platoon of troops on parade..one step together and no one outta line, like robots or clones..

but actually it restrains things about life..not restrain life into things..

i'm afraid you people have the wrong idea about (unchanging or absolute)..

freedom in freedom is chaos.
some confinement in freedom is ideal..
some freedom in confinement is a jail..

but those three are only in case they are based on absolute values..other wise they will collapse along with the values' change..

sorry for writing a lot..

 

[scifes]

Scifes claims it is necessary, it is not. It is a constant unfortunately because of people who can't or will not think for themselves.

how will the world go if everyone thought for themselves?
not only between different "thoughts" of different people..
but of the same people over time..

Saying dogma is good is like saying war is good.

war is essential for different views to get a chance..
i think:scratchin: the reason even a utopian state will deal with war after being given it's chance is because even if imperfect humans are given a perfect tool.. any mishappening will be from their part..
in "heaven" (if it exists, which it does, but i don't like warnings or proof whiners)..so in "heaven" humans will be altered to be complete..suiting their perfect habitat or enviornment..but here in earth with our present make up..our best bid is with a perfect tool or system..