Does time exist?

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nebel said:
let me try a workshop illustration, because I like to think of the cosmos as a workshop for creativity. ( it is in the genes, my paternal grandfather was a renowned sculptor, who's works are now under monument historic protection)
There is always time to work in the atelier. and there are always measuring devices, handy to measure the dimensions of the work pieces. The start of a project does not mean the creation of the measure of length, width or depth, or duration, that existed already, fundamentally.
objects do not make time appear out of nothing.
time existed long before movement, before objects,
look at it objectively please.
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The workshop illustration is not good enough , it is incomplete .

Objectively , has been done by me , many , many , many yrs. ago . It is nothing new .

Time has no dimensional physical properties at all , in and of its self .
 
river said:
The workshop illustration is not good enough , it is incomplete .
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of course, like all illustrations, but let us hear how you would complete it.

river said:
Time has no dimensional physical properties at all , in and of its self .
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If by "physical" you mean concrete, material of course you are correct. If however you consider energy, the precursor, or alter ego of matter, that is another matter. Energy uncreated and indestructible is fundamental, so: It is contained by time into the indefinite past., and future. Both time and energy are fundamental, not emergent. What came first in infinities? That is why I propose
energytime, always,
timespace infinite but non dimensional, non directional, (as you said too)
masstime: since the BB, physical, tied to the 3 dimensions. traversed only into the future. aka spacetime.
 
nebel said:
of course, like all illustrations, but let us hear how you would complete it.

If by "physical" you mean concrete, material of course you are correct. If however you consider energy, the precursor, or alter ego of matter, that is another matter. Energy uncreated and indestructible is fundamental, so: It is contained by time into the indefinite past., and future. Both time and energy are fundamental, not emergent. What came first in infinities? That is why I propose
energytime, always,
timespace infinite but non dimensional, non directional, (as you said too)
masstime: since the BB, physical, tied to the 3 dimensions. traversed only into the future. aka spacetime.
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So your arguement is a physcological aspect of energy and matter .
 
river said: ↑
So your arguement is a physcological aspect of energy and matter .
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nebel said:
can you elaborate please?
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Time is a psychological aspect of energy and matter .

Time is about movement which we all observe . Energy is about movement whether by force and or interactions which creates a force , speed , magnetism , vibrations , etc.

The speed of a car , speed being the time between two defined lines , start -finish .

But whether I define the time between the lines of , start-finish , is irrelevent to the velocity of the car itself .

The car will go between start - finish , at exactly the same speed or velocity whether I measure it or not .

Time measures the speed or velocity but without time does not negate the cars movement from one point to another .
 
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DaveC426913 said:
So, what was it before our advanced brains came along and psychologized it?
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Nothing truly exists without it being within the perceptual event horizon.

Although for inventions and theoretical purposes, it is useful to have the concept of assumed existence.
That is the usefulness of theories and equations, they can be used to predict and assume things. But an assumption does not actually exist, until the phenomenon is percieved in our perceptual event horizon of consciousness.
 
DIFFERENT VIEWS ABOUT TIME

Time is a physical magnitude that affects all reality, but we do not have a specific sense to perceive the intervals. This makes each person get a different idea about the nature of time. There is no consensus on what time is.

1- Heraclitus of Ephesus (philosopher): becoming flows like a river, it is the Being.
2- Parmenides of Elea (philosopher): there are no changes, there is no time.
3- Aristotle of Estagira (philosopher): time exists when movement involves a number.
4- Galileo Galilei (physicist): movement is relative. If A moves with respect to B, B moves with respect to A.
5- Isaac Newton (physicist): time is real and absolute.
6- Immanuel Kant (philosopher): time is an a priori form.
7- Albert Einstein (physicist): time is an illusion and relative.
8- Henri Bergson (philosopher): rejected mathematical time.
9- Martin Heidegger (philosopher): time is the being-there or dasein, time is temporary.
10- Julian Barbour (physicist): time does not exist.
11- Paul Davies (physicist): defends the unidirectionality or arrow of time.
12- José Ignacio Latorre (physicist): time is a parameter that relates two movements.
13- Lee Smolin (physicist): time is real.
14- Bradford Skow (philosopher): past, present and future coexist in the universe.
15- David Eagleman (neurobiologist): time is invented by the brain.
16- Elvis Sibilia (psychologist): time is magnitive, that is, objective, imperceptible and measurable.

Meaning of colors:

Blue: time exists (4)
Black: intermediate (6)
Red: time does not exist (6)
 
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river said:
Certainly . Okay so has got to do with time ?
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You said "Time is a psychological aspect of energy and matter"

Since
- "psychology" only came along with modern humans, and
- "the study of movement / awareness of movement" only came along with the creation of primitive life...

.. then time cannot be defined by them, since it has existed for ten billion years longer.
 
DaveC426913 said:
You said "Time is a psychological aspect of energy and matter"

Since
- "psychology" only came along with modern humans, and
- "the study of movement / awareness of movement" only came along with the creation of primitive life...

.. then time cannot be defined by them, since it has existed for ten billion years longer.
Click to expand...

So then time is defined by movement of physical things , regardless of whether any eyes are watching this movement .

Hence to the objects , micro and/or macro time means nothing to their fundamental movement .
 
river said:
So then time is defined by movement of physical things , regardless of whether any eyes are watching this movement .

Hence to the objects , micro and/or macro time means nothing to their fundamental movement .
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How many times are you going to change your definition?
Why not think your thoughts through before posting them?
You've sort of used up a whole screen of discussion for nothing.
That's not very considerate.
 
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