Does the west view Islam as enemy ?
- Thread starter Proud_Muslim
- Start date
Vienna said:Sorry Adstar, I like you and all that, but I don't fall for all this "God told them/us/me to do it rubbish.
Something that you can't hear, feel, touch or see instructs you to kill someone - It's bullshit. You're welcome to your "voices in the head" business, but I don't fall for that.
Well at least you have gained insight to a view on this subject. As for believing in it or not, that entirely up to you.
All Praise The Ancient of Days
Zero said:
Well if the allegations are true and they where going to carry out violent acts then immediately it tells me that they are false Christians. It is great vanity to think that you can force the return of the Messiah and some false Christians think they can. The messiah will come when the number of those who will be killed for their witness to Him has been reached. Not a moment before, not a moment later.
Revelation 6
9 When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held. 10And they cried with a loud voice, saying, "How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?" 11Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed.
All praise The Ancient Of Days
what leads you to believe most muslims don't view individuals like bin laden and al sadr in the same light? just curious.
surenderer
Registered Senior Member
Vienna said:Quite true.
However, the Qu'ran tells Muslims that Christians and Jews are the enemy, how very barbaric..
Absolutely not true.... Christians and Jews in the Koran are called "people of the book" and the Koran also says that they will be in heaven and not to squabble with them. If that wasnt the case then why would the Koran give Muslims permission to marry Jews and Christians? any verse in the quran that talks about murdering Jews and Christians were revealed to the Prophet Muhamaad during wartime and was addressing those specific Jews and Christians that he was at war with.
antifreeze said:
Hi antifreeze well from my memory i am sure that i have never stated that i believe or do not believe that most muslims don't view individuals like Osama Bin Larded and Al Sadar in the same light.
i am not an expert on the islamic rules for jihad. from what i have read there seems to be no reason for calling the acts of Al Sadar un islamic. As far as i know his fighters are fighting the occupational forces in a jihad compliant manner. Their bombs are targeted at soldiers and his battles have been conventional battles. Of course their bombs have killed many innocent iraqi bystanders but i suppose they would call that collateral damage. So from my limited understanding of the principles of jihad Al Sader is not a false Muslim. Maybe surenderer might care to give his views on the actions of Al Sadar?
As for Osama Bin Larden
I think most muslims who are knowledgeable in the teachings of muhammed would say that he is not following the teachings of muhammed on jihad. So i would not call Osama a true muslim. But the fact reamins that many people in the islamic world take a secret delight in his acts because they see his acts a vengance against the west and america in particular for its support of isreal who they view as oppressors and humiliators of the palistinian people who are mostly muslims.
Note i did not say all islamic people take delight in the actions of Osama. But on the day of 9/11 i saw many muslims celebrating in the streets with real delight at the news of the successful attack upon the twin towers.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
surenderer
Registered Senior Member
Well as far as Al Sadr is concerned the only reason that anyone even knows his name or he has a following is because he ran a little nickel and dime newspaper and the US came and shut it down which alotta Iraqi's saw as hypocracy. Osama definatly doesnt follow true Islam because he targets innocents constantly, he called for killing Westerners wherever they are.....who could respect that? As far as Osama is concerned i think alotta people would have taken delight in what happened on 9-11 whether they were muslim or not because of their hatred for US policy(remember that all muslim countries flew their flags at half-mass except Lybia and Iraq.....China didnt even do that)
surenderer
Registered Senior Member
Not to debate this or compare other religions but actually christianity doesnt even allow inter-religious marriages at all. Where do you base this feeble-mindlessness from?(refering to women) If you want to know the real reason it is because the man in an marriage is responsible for the well-being and morals of the household and the Koran teaches that
I base it upon quran and hadith. In the quran it is implied (since women have lesser rights as opposed to men and are to be regarded as fine things like treasures or horses, not people but possessions) in hadith it is spelled out in black and white. And why is it defacto the man who is to be responsible?
look rather than dredging thru this just search for my thread titled "muslim women" and sorry before hand I was angry when I wrote it, but the quotes are real.
look rather than dredging thru this just search for my thread titled "muslim women" and sorry before hand I was angry when I wrote it, but the quotes are real.
Al hussein
Registered Senior Member
surenderer said:
What i dont undersatand is whaterver the media says u guys accept
It said Osama`s ppl flew a plane in the world trade centre
they got no proof maybe osama is a us citizen that the US is using to degrade islam
And there is no proof that the madrid train bombings were done by islamic terroists this is all done to degrade islam
surenderer
Registered Senior Member
Al hussein said:
well i would usually agree with you but one thing that is a fact is that Osama DID come out and say to"kill americans wherever they are civilian or otherwise" which is totally unislamic
surenderer
Registered Senior Member
Pathetic muslims use the name of Christianity to get attention - leeches.
How disrespectful with over 1600 posts you would think you would know how to show more respect.Anyway the title of your URL is answering-christianity so anyone with a 2nd grade or higher education would understand that it wasnt a christian site. I havent looked deep into that particular site but i dont claim that every site on the web represents proper islam nor would you (i think) not claim that every site on the web represents christianity how about this?
http://g.msn.com/9SE/1?http://www.s...eadd7491d9cf9ba5cadce4bd1&POS=13&CM=WPU&CE=13
How disrespectful with over 1600 posts you would think you would know how to show more respect.Anyway the title of your URL is answering-christianity so anyone with a 2nd grade or higher education would understand that it wasnt a christian site. I havent looked deep into that particular site but i dont claim that every site on the web represents proper islam nor would you (i think) not claim that every site on the web represents christianity how about this?
http://g.msn.com/9SE/1?http://www.s...eadd7491d9cf9ba5cadce4bd1&POS=13&CM=WPU&CE=13
I recently heard that a sizeable portion of Saudis favorably view bin Laden's views.
http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/06/08/poll.binladen/index.html
Ah. I must say this does come at a slight, though not complete, surprise.
So I guess that article would give that quote some more substance, hm?
I haven't yet seen a major world religion that hasn't had some wrongful blood spilled in its name. Even Buddhism was used to justify assassinations and to justify rule over the Tamil. Parts of Zen Buddhism were drawn to power to war effort in Japan during the second World War.
A discussion claiming a religion is 'evil' on the basis of high-profile acts of its followers will end in flames and closure, if it ever does end.
http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/06/08/poll.binladen/index.html
Ah. I must say this does come at a slight, though not complete, surprise.
So I guess that article would give that quote some more substance, hm?
I haven't yet seen a major world religion that hasn't had some wrongful blood spilled in its name. Even Buddhism was used to justify assassinations and to justify rule over the Tamil. Parts of Zen Buddhism were drawn to power to war effort in Japan during the second World War.
A discussion claiming a religion is 'evil' on the basis of high-profile acts of its followers will end in flames and closure, if it ever does end.
Al hussein
Registered Senior Member
Vienna said:Quite true.
However, the Qu'ran tells Muslims that Christians and Jews are the enemy, how very barbaric..
Can u giv me the verse that says this
Bells
Staff member
Oh where does one even begin...Al hussein said:
Hussein, we know Bin Laden arranged and planned for those planes to be flown into the WTC because he came out and admitted it himself. Al Qaeda have claimed liability for the bombings in Spain. Should the media in such cases call Bin Laden a liar for admitting his liability for 9/11?
How about the Spain train bombings? Should we call them liars when they claimed liability or it? What about Bali? Should the media refuse to accept JI's admission to the Bali bombings? Please tell me what other conspiracy theory you're going to come out with next? That the WTC didn't collapse and it's part of an elaborate hoax to bring down Islam? Give me a break!
And you accuse us of accepting what the media tells us, yet you accept what the media tells you, for example, about the plight of Muslims around the world? Kind of hypocritical don't you think? Believe me Hussein, we are more than capable of making up our own minds about what to and what to not believe, just as you are.
surenderer
Registered Senior Member
Bells said:Oh where does one even begin...
Hussein, we know Bin Laden arranged and planned for those planes to be flown into the WTC because he came out and admitted it himself. Al Qaeda have claimed liability for the bombings in Spain. Should the media in such cases call Bin Laden a liar for admitting his liability for 9/11?
How about the Spain train bombings? Should we call them liars when they claimed liability or it? What about Bali? Should the media refuse to accept JI's admission to the Bali bombings? Please tell me what other conspiracy theory you're going to come out with next? That the WTC didn't collapse and it's part of an elaborate hoax to bring down Islam? Give me a break!
And you accuse us of accepting what the media tells us, yet you accept what the media tells you, for example, about the plight of Muslims around the world? Kind of hypocritical don't you think? Believe me Hussein, we are more than capable of making up our own minds about what to and what to not believe, just as you are.
Well actually Bin Laden never did claim responsibilty for 9-11 but he did say he was glad it happened as far as the spain bombing was concerened it wasnt Al Queida who did that it was an "Al Queida affiliated group" which could be something as simple as someone who has a simillar anti-western agenda. I personally dont think Bin Laden did it either but to me it doesnt matter because he is guilty of plenty on other crimes against Islam for which punishment is deserved.
surenderer
Registered Senior Member
Bells said:
http://www.americanfreepress.net/12_21_01/Bin_Laden_Video/bin_laden_video.html
lol......we can both find links to support our views i guess it just depends on whom we feel has more to gain and who had gained more since 9-11
"Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in every country."
Hermann Goering, Nazi-Minister before the Nuremberg Trials in 1946
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