Magical Realist
Valued Senior Member
Does the brain really "cause" consciousness?
- Thread starter Magical Realist
- Start date
The incident which i mentioned, happened long ago. May be at that time we were studying at 'standard three'. We were that time around ten years old. Her case was published in the local media. So, there may be some truth in her case.
If you believe all published in the local media, I have great bridge in Brooklynn I will sell you cheap.
Actually in her case, she could recollect that in her previous birth she(he) had a scooter accident( or similar event ) . Her previous parents confirmed the incident.
To Magical Realist: Thanks. I watched the first link and the 7+ minutes of the second (but none of the additional links on the right side bar list)
Large number of not well explained cases is not very impressive to me. I would be more impressed by a case where the prior life was way far from the current life. For example, in China for first link mentioned African child who could accurately remember details of the African village where his parents had lived, but he had not etc.
The hard part is not confirming the recalled event actually happen, but proving the recaller could not possible have been told of it by someone who could have known it did.
What I want to see is even one case where what is remember by an African child about their prior life (I.e. dying in a long forgotten mud slide that occurred in tiny unimportant village in china, 60 years earlier) etc. - Something that none of the recaller´s contacts (direct like parents and indirect like friends of parents etc. could ever know, but is still confirmable as having happened far away in both time and space.
I would consider even only one case strong proof of reincarnation if the African child told of his death in the Chinese mud slide - that it was cased by his efforts to save his sister, etc. IN THE NO LONGER SPOKEN CHINESE DIELECT used in that tiny village 60 years ago that only expert Chinese linguistic scholars could understand now. Is it not strange the events of the recalled life are only told in a language that the recaller now knows and not in their original language? If they can recall isolated events from the prior life, why not the language they used every day during the prior life?
Large number of not well explained cases is not very impressive to me. I would be more impressed by a case where the prior life was way far from the current life. For example, in China for first link mentioned African child who could accurately remember details of the African village where his parents had lived, but he had not etc.
The hard part is not confirming the recalled event actually happen, but proving the recaller could not possible have been told of it by someone who could have known it did.
What I want to see is even one case where what is remember by an African child about their prior life (I.e. dying in a long forgotten mud slide that occurred in tiny unimportant village in china, 60 years earlier) etc. - Something that none of the recaller´s contacts (direct like parents and indirect like friends of parents etc. could ever know, but is still confirmable as having happened far away in both time and space.
I would consider even only one case strong proof of reincarnation if the African child told of his death in the Chinese mud slide - that it was cased by his efforts to save his sister, etc. IN THE NO LONGER SPOKEN CHINESE DIELECT used in that tiny village 60 years ago that only expert Chinese linguistic scholars could understand now. Is it not strange the events of the recalled life are only told in a language that the recaller now knows and not in their original language? If they can recall isolated events from the prior life, why not the language they used every day during the prior life?
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that is absolute proof her "previous parents" were still alive and knew of the event told and could easily have told her of it - most plausible explaniation of her "accurate recall."
Magical Realist
Valued Senior Member
I don't think it's that strange that a presently learned language should replace a previously learned language. We simply don't have enough information yet to know what will remembered and what won't be. But the cases mentioned on the site definitely point to there being something to this. You just have to have an open mind and not disingenuously keep raising the bar on what counts as evidence.
I´m not "raising the bar on what counts as evidence" Two things are, and always have been, essential to any proof of re-incarnations:
(1) The recalled event did actually happen - That´s the easy test. Thousand of cases pass it. AND
(2) It can be proven that there is no way the "recaller" could have learned of the event. I.e. it is not in any book the recaller read, like the many "I was Joan of Arc" recallers are known to have read about her; NOR is it known by ANY of the people the recaller could have contact with.* - That is the hard test and never has been passed AFAIK.**
On the lack of original language being used in the recall: No it is quite strange that the description is NEVER in the original language. If your "native language", say until age 8 is X and then you move to another country and become proficient in language Y; yes many events you experienced prior to age seven CAN be told in either language, but some things like your old street address or telephone number or what was your grade school school bus number, etc. are much harder to tell in the new language. It would only natural to use the original language, if you were actually recalling prior life experiences and not just repeating things you learned in the new language. - They naturally would be retold in the new language you learned them in. Some things, learned in an earlier language are nearly impossible to tell in the new language.
For example, I occasionally get a telephone call from some stock advisory service in English but I need to tell my street address or a different telephone number for them to use. I know these things only in Portuguese and must silently say them in Portuguese and translate into English. - They are not in my memory bank in English.
The African child with prior life in tiny remote Chinese village would have the same problem. - Everything in his memory banks is in the now forgotten Chinese dialect he spoke as a child, all the names are in Chinese, his sister´s name, the name of the river his house was washed into, etc. - What is strange is that he is even able to tell the facts in a very new language (his African language) with entirely different grammatical structure and often not even translatable idiomatic phrases etc.
* Unless you have a complete record of all the internet sites visited, that test is becoming impossible for modern people to pass. I know a million things, facts, etc. that I have no idea how they got into my memory now. At one time I knew much of the train schedule in the Swiss Alps for the major cities (I had euro-rail passes about 6 times and always went on them and the included boats on the Swiss lakes) Those facts may well be in my memory still, but just not subject to my recall, now.
**American Bride Murphy did, as I recall, tell part of her recalled facts /prior history, in simple French. - No one initially could explain this as she did not speak French, but with more investigation, it turned out that at some summer camp or some where she had learned some French even though her parents did not know she knew any and she had no occasion to use it.
My first wife was Norwegian, and quite fluent in English long before I got her to cease being a Norwegian school teacher and live with me in the USA. After 20 more years of total emersion in English, if she had to compare prices in the store to see if the "giant economy size" was actually cheaper, etc. the calculation was ALWAYS IN THE NOREWEGIAN SHE LEARNED AS A CHILD. Many things, especially often used numbers like old telephone number, etc. are essentially impossible to tell in anything but their original language without using translation from it.
Why do you think it normal for the African child not to use the language he used when he had his recalled Chinese experiences. Again what is strange is the recaller NEVER DOES use the original language, except if it is also known to them and they are trying to pull off a PR scam by using it.
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Magical Realist
Valued Senior Member
No..not everything from the previous life is stored in the new brain and we have no reason for expecting it to be. The child is a new person with a new brain and new experiences. It's a miracle that any details of a past life can surface at all thru all this new data. Not speaking their former language is not proof reincarnation didn't happen. It's simply another aspect of this phenomenon that we don't understand yet.
Magical Realist
Valued Senior Member
Another remarkable case of children remembering past lives. The skeptic's catch-all response: the kid saw it all on tv. Uh no. Not with this amount of detail.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/a...ted-Our-son-World-War-II-pilot-come-life.html
TV interview with parents and son:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hG4HOobuQCo
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/a...ted-Our-son-World-War-II-pilot-come-life.html
TV interview with parents and son:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hG4HOobuQCo
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Here is another authentic account of reincarnation by Paramhansa Yogananda in his spiritual classic "Autobiography of a yogi".
Read chapter 28 of his autobiography.
http://www.crystalclarity.com/yogananda/chap28.php.
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soul, mass and consciousness
We know that mass can not move on its own because it has inertia. It requires force to move a mass.
Soul can move on its own. It does not have inertia and it does not depend on other factors for its movement.
Soul is necessary for the growth of a cell. So, it can be said that "consciousness of brain" is depended upon soul. As long as the brain is not completely developed from the single cell(fertilized egg cell), where the "consciousness of brain" may reside?
We know that mass can not move on its own because it has inertia. It requires force to move a mass.
Soul can move on its own. It does not have inertia and it does not depend on other factors for its movement.
Soul is necessary for the growth of a cell. So, it can be said that "consciousness of brain" is depended upon soul. As long as the brain is not completely developed from the single cell(fertilized egg cell), where the "consciousness of brain" may reside?
What's the evidence for a soul?
That's a sad case of delusion born of desire.
We don't fall because our brains coordinate information from the inner ear and our muscles to prevent it. What you are calling a soul is just the effect of a functioning body.
Nothing about this incident was conducted with proper scientific controls. So, although no explanation is necessary (that would assume all the data was trustworthy), I have a simpler explanation, the parents are lying.
Magical Realist
Valued Senior Member
99% of all the incidents reported on the news are "conducted" without scientific controls. Yet we readily take the word of eyewitnesses then. So you think the parents are devious liars. That all the thousands of documented cases of children remembering previous lives is part of a vast conspiracy of parents and researchers lying and probably besmirching their reputations just for the heck of it. That isn't a "simpler explanation." That's delusional paranoia.
The parents in this case did not "witness" reincarnation. I don't know how devious they are, probably they are simply deluding themselves. Kids like to be the center of attention, and since the child was obviously rewarded for his "perceptions", he continued to do so. Since they are Christians, I must also assume they embrace a degree of the irrational. The fact that you would consider anecdotal reports like this as valid evidence points to your own failings in this area as well.
Incidents are reported on the news... it is up to the individual whether they believe what is reported or not.
Personally, the more incredible the claim the more rigorous the assessment of the evidence provided to support it.
You do? Or do you merely accept that these people have their own interpretation of what they saw.
Personally I do not take the word of eyewitnesses as truth - merely as their recollection of events.
I would draw no conclusion at all - other than the parents are making a claim.
Without examining the evidence more closely - far more closely given the extraordinary claims they are making - there is nothing really to be said. Is there a simpler explanation? Yes - the parents are incorrect/misleading - either deliberately or accidentally.
And as for the "authentic account of reincarnation by Paramhansa Yogananda"... without supporting evidence, the only thing that can be stated as authentic is that he is claiming his recollection of events to be true. But since he has a vested interest in the story being true, it is unwise to take it as truth merely because he claims it to be so.
Rather like saying the Bible stories are true merely because they claim to be true.
Magical Realist
Valued Senior Member
You're right. Nobody "witnesses" reincarnation. Just like creationists smugly insist that nobody witnessed evolution. But given the facts of all these cases, it becomes a very likely inferrence to explain how this information gets transmitted. Could it just happen psychically? Sure, but the pattern is that the kids have a explicit identity with this other person in their past life. Until you have some evidence showing that these parents lied, the case stands on its own merits. Unless you are just in the habit of dismissing eyewitness accounts that don't match your preconclusion about what really happened. I happen to avoid doing that on scientific grounds.