Does God make mistakes?

Doreen,

If God wanted to He could've created people right in hellfire and that would be just plain torture but He's perfect so instead He created people with free will and put them in this world He has absolutely no needs you know that's why He's perfect.
 
786 said:
You're basic argument was that if God is loving (and all-powerful) that he would not let 'this happen'- in that case we can extrapolate to a more broad perspective that if God is loving (and all-powerful) he shouldn't have created this world, or should've created one without evil.
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1) note that last part, where there would still be a world, but one without evil. So right there what seemed either or in your previous post now has a potential 3rd option. Further, this is a very specific case I am using as an example. A baby, iow a soul that cannot protect itself from a known - to God - rapist pedophile, is placed where it is likely to be abused. At no point can one point to that child and say 'it moved towards evil' or 'it did not take care of itself' or 'it did not open it's heart to jesus or follow the word of God' etc. IOW it did not fail to use its free will correctly. To assume that it must be so that babies must be exposed like this seems to make for a really limited creative ability on the part of God. It assumes 1) evil is necessary but further 2) evil must be able to come to the completely innocent - who have not abused their free will in any way at all. I see no reason to assume God is that weak.


Maybe God is impartial on babies.... he expresses his love to you when you return to him (i.e die), and this whole life is a test... Not for the babies but for adults. (or when the baby grows up)
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Then God is hardly a loving father as presented at least in Christianity. In any case, how could someone loving be indifferent to babies? I can see them choosing not to have any, but pretty much anyone with half a heart would try to prevent a baby from crawling in the street. I suppose God could have less than half a heart. But it's either that or God makes mistakes.
 
Big Chiller said:
Doreen,
If God wanted to He could've created people right in hellfire and that would be just plain torture but He's perfect so instead He created people with free will and put them in this world He has absolutely no needs you know that's why He's perfect.
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A baby's free will is irrevelent if it is born into the household of a rapist pedophile - a redundant term, but I want to make it quite clear what is in store for that baby. A God who puts babies in that situation is either fallible or not loving. Your choice.
 
But why would this make God fallible I've already told you morality can't be attributed to God because He allows for morality and accepts it.
 
Alan McDougall said:
I believe there is an eternal battle of light and dark good and evil raging in the universe, lets hope to God the Lord God of light wins!!
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I agree, there is something going on.

As for the conclusion, there is no point in worrying, the wheels are rolling now all we can do is sit back and go for the ride.
 
Big Chiller said:
But why would this make God fallible I've already told you morality can't be attributed to God because He allows for morality and accepts it.
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To me it is obvious it is a mistake to put a baby somewhere it will be raped. Call me crazy. Of course someone with limited knowledge or power might make this mistake. Or an unloving God. But one of these has to give.
 
Alan McDougall said:
The Abraham religious namely; Islam , Judaism and Christianity all clam (CLAIM) god is perfect in all his ways :)
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Gods don't make mistakes because there aren't any gods to see to make mistakes. YOU are the only speaking here, so it is clearly YOU who is making the mistakes. :)
 
Big Chiller said:
Doreen,

If God wanted to He could've created people right in hellfire and that would be just plain torture but He's perfect so instead He created people with free will and put them in this world He has absolutely no needs you know that's why He's perfect.
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That's not true. Your god has insatiable needs for worship, obedience and blood. Your god is murderous egomaniac. Perfection.
 
Doreen said:
Then God is hardly a loving father as presented at least in Christianity. In any case, how could someone loving be indifferent to babies? I can see them choosing not to have any, but pretty much anyone with half a heart would try to prevent a baby from crawling in the street. I suppose God could have less than half a heart. But it's either that or God makes mistakes.
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I do not think this is a fair presentation of possible options.
It would be a fair presentation of possible options if we would posit that we are our bodies and that our bodies are all there is to us.

But I see no reason for positing that, already because if we are our bodies and our bodies are all there is to us, it is absurd to talk about any kind of metaphysics and the question of God's nature never even enters the picture.
 
Signal said:
I do not think this is a fair presentation of possible options.
It would be a fair presentation of possible options if we would posit that we are our bodies and that our bodies are all there is to us.

But I see no reason for positing that, already because if we are our bodies and our bodies are all there is to us, it is absurd to talk about any kind of metaphysics and the question of God's nature never even enters the picture.
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I'm not assuming we are only our bodies. I just can't buy the loving father letting some of his babies get raped. That this was the best of all possible worlds 'he' could make. I just don't believe it. Something got out of hand. There are such extended efforts to come up with reasons for the problem of evil that somehow allow God to be, at the same time, omniscient, infallible, loving and omnipotent. I just don't buy it. The fact that these babies might get to go to heaven later or reincarnate, etc., just does not wash with me. The loving father, loving God ruling metaphor needs to be dropped if God thinks baby rape can be compensated for later and that this was a needed to be available experience for babies. I think omnipotence has to go to. An all powerful God could achieve whatever goals are hidden in baby rape via some other method.
 
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Jan Ardena said:
What makes you think a "soul" born into the world is "innocent"?

jan.
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What makes you think a baby deserves to be raped? In that context that baby is innocent. I truly find it amazing how people will even turn on babies rather than face the possibility that God could be or have been fallible.
 
Jan Ardena said:
What makes you think a "soul" born into the world is "innocent"?

jan.
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That is a good point, I see God as a being of perfect love, but having an evil adversary, call it the devil or what I don't mind. The battle for the universe is not so one sided that some people would have us believe,maybe the Light of God could be put out by the Lord of Darkness?

Remember this universe is most likely only one in a thousand billion of others where the battle also rages
 
Alan McDougall said:
That is a good point, I see God as a being of perfect love, but having an evil adversary, call it the devil or what I don't mind. The battle for the universe is not so one sided that some people would have us believe,maybe the Light of God could be put out by the Lord of Darkness?

Remember this universe is most likely only one in a thousand billion of others where the battle also rages
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Notice that in your version your God is not omnipotent.

It seems to me one of these qualities, at least, is in question:

omnipotence
omniscience
lovingness
infallibility
 
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